Emotional Disappointments were Abundant at PCGS in Long Beach

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Why did PCGS get almost 5,000 submissions at an average of $80 a pop? I was told that there is a 100 day possible wait for economy submissions.
Thge only scores I heard of were with a few Franklin half dollars.A prominent dealer went 0 for 60 and then went back for more and I believe he got more bad news.Another dealer got more body bags than he saw while in Viet Nam.I went 0 for about $4,000 spent.Fortunately I went 3 for 3 with Canadian coins.
To me it seems if there are liner coins they will not presently upgrade.I also believe that PCGS knows what some of the modern low pop coins are selling for and to avoid the liability is not grading any 68's except for a few commemoratives.67's are also scarce.
TDN is upset.What is the answer?

Stewart

wondercoin

Stewart: One of the greatest upgrades at the show (besides your 3 Canadian coins perhaps), was a Pattern Morgan Quarter upgrading from PCGS-PR67 to PCGS-PR68DCAM. Rick Kay, my table partner, landed the upgrade. I believe, only the 4th pattern coin in the entire pattern series presently in a PCGS-PR68 holder and perhaps only the 2nd in a PCGS-PR68DCAM holder. I am very happy for him.

Besides that coin and a couple others scattered here and there, the results were, overall, horrible as you point out. Where do we go from here? Simple - to Baltimore in 2 weeks - hopefully, its a new ballgame there. Wondercoin

TomB

I agree with Greg. I will no longer be submitting to PCGS, the last straw was my submission that I handed to PCGS on dealer day at FUN and still has not been graded. That would be a submission date of January 8, 2003. Perhaps I can pick them up in person at Baltimore? From now on I believe everything that I think needs to be certified will go to NGC.

braddick

I know it doesn't mean much, but maybe in some token way it does: I passed on submitting 17 coins I had brought with me specifically to do so with PCGS. I know some were just plain 'ol low MS graded toned Morgans, but others were kind of cool.
After hearing what was going on I became disgruntled and decided just to pass.

I'll either just keep them raw or maybe buy some nice Capital Holders like GSAGUY does and enjoy them that way.
At least I saved close to $300.00 in grading fees.

I am smart enough to know PCGS could care less- they sneeze $300.00 every second, but X's me by a few hundred others and maybe a still small voice can be heard above the roar of the sound of cracking plastic and the moans of No Grades.

TAP444

Now if some of the heavy hitters would follow that
example at Baltimore they might wake up

MoneyLA

Interesting thread. Sorry I didn't make it to Long Beach this year but other activities with my new girlfriend kept me otherwise occupied.

This discussion reminds me of an event I witnessed about a year ago at the SEGS booth at Long Beach: A dealer was at the booth complaining about the results of his submission of about 100 coins. He complained that of those 100 coins, fewer than ten percent got a grade he agreed with -- the others graded less.

The dealer complained and complained then huffed and puffed and walked away.

Then, one of the SEGS folks turned to me and said, "what does he think this is, a service to 'buy' your grade?"

This incident of course can also be applied to the experiences you are reporting with PCGS. You didn't get the grade you thought you'd get and you are upset. Okay, but you are paying PCGS for their endorsement of your opinion. You didnt get it -- does that mean PCGS was wrong?

We live by the sword (third party grading) and we die by the sword.

If this is the way most of you feel then perhaps when and if third party graded coins no longer carry the premium they have now third party grading will not be as valued as it is now.

I also have had my fair share of body bags and DNC's.

cheers, alan mendelson

WalkerGuy

Hi folks,
I have really hesitated to participate in this thread or the dozen or so same topic ones that have preceded it. However, I'm putting on my cast iron athletic device, and I feel Alan has made a valid point and it deserves some consideration.
I do not remember but a handful of comments concerning raw coins not making the expected grade. It seems most of the dissatisfaction is about a coin or large number of coins not making a one point jump.
As a way of seeing it from a different angle, if one was to submit 50 coins, would one expect all 50 to come back upgraded? 40? 25? 10? I say this, in that, if 10 making it, works for you, or 20 does, why wouldn't you be upset about the other 30 or 40? Probably because some of us really expect to "get lucky" on a few of the PQ in a grade that are just that, PQ for the grade. If the submission price was $500 for each coin that didn't make it and the $100 if it did make it, would everyone out there still submit the numbers of coins being sent in? The graders have to sort through the whole bunch with the starting arguement being, "you didn't grade this correctly the first time, try again."
Just another line of thought, so ready, aim, fire!

RegistryCoin

It seems to me that when expectations are on the high side, disappointments are bound to be abundant.
Not to mention that it seems that each and every coin deemed "good for the grade" is all-of-a-sudden expected to be in a next-grade holder.
Satisfaction is only a realistic expectation away.

TAP444

THE ANSWER, see the 5000 drop to 1000 at
the Baltimore show. that would be the answer
please read greg's post "they keep submitting"
money is the name of the game for the public company.

JoeHolt

Just mayby the coins are getting graded correct the first time and the few that have been graded low in the past and have been regraded are becomming harder and harder to get so it is becoming haredr to get the upgrades that werre easier to receive in the past.

I also talked to PCGS today and on the economy submissions the turn around is about 45-50 days with a few takeing longer. I called due to a moderen submission I have there now for 30 days I have seen other board members who had sent theres off after mine get there grades but oh well life goes.

my 2cents worth

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Registry Coin

I will strongly disagree with you that the expectations are too high.I consider myself an expert at grading small cents.The reason I am disappointed is that PCGS has been limiting the scale. Proof 68 and ms 68 do not exist anymore.As Tradedollarnut has pointed out this limitation has been pushed down the entire mint state and Proof scale.I bought and own a proof Flying Eagle Cent that is the best specimen that everyone from Rick Snow to Rick Tomaska has seen and have drooled over this coin.Yes it is a cameo.I am relentless and I will get it in a properly graded holder.I paid a record price for the coin and must sell it or I'm washed up.I believe in my ability and will not quit.

Stewart

RegistryCoin

Hi, Stewart. Perhaps it is not so much an "expectation of a standardized grade" based on what we've experienced the past year or two, for example, as much as an "expectation of a changing standard" based on what we've experienced since the inception of slabbing. It may not seem fair, but....

Here's part of what I said elsewhere:

Expectations are just too high. The crack-outs have been way too (immediately) profitable for dealers.
Really, is every "nice for the grade" coin going to upgrade/cross?
Before the advent of slabbing, most coins sold were a grade or two too high.
Slabbing, expecially pcgs and ngc's, have taken away a bit of that over-grading.
Is the only way to satisfy dealers now, to have the slabbers overgrade everything by a point or two?

Grading standards do change.
There has been little consistancy, on which, one can base consistant expectations.

Grading is not a science, we are told. We are seeing that it is an opinion, but it is also a marketing tool.
Marketing of grading companies is probably the most important ingredient to their success.
Grading is a part of a grading company's marketing.
A grading standard is just a reflection of the current marketing of a grading company.
Acg is marketing their standard.
Icg is marketing their standard.
Ngc is marketing their standard.
Pcgs is marketing their standard.
All these marketing approaches, with the possible exception of acg, change in time.
Grading standards will reflect these marketing changes.

Adjust expectations, or, better yet, have few.
Perhaps without expectations of great(est) and fast(est) returns, one can enjoy the hobby and the biz a bit more.