1953-s - Jefferson vs. Franklin

rwhite · March 2, 2003 11:49AM

1953 was obviously a bad year at the San Francisco Mint as all the coins from there that year are struck like pancakes. Here's my question:

The 1953-s Franklin has (34) graded in all grades of FBL. There are (2) 63FBL, (13) 64FBL, (18) 65FBL, and (1) 66FBL.
The 1953-s Jefferson has (5)! graded in all grades of FS. There are (5) 64FS... thats it.

With 65FBL Franklins trading at over $15,000 (pop 18) and 66FBL at $50k (pop 1), what would a 64FS (pop 5) Jeff trade for? What happens when a 53-s Jeff is graded 65FS (pop 1)?!? This has got to be the king of the Jefferson series (and perhaps the premiere rarity of the post-1950 era) Would anyone care to guess a price the first 65FS will bring?

wondercoin · March 2, 2003 11:56AM

Ryan: A couple comments:

1. I believe there may be only -4- PCGS-MS64FS coins at this time. It is possible that pop will drop in the next 30 days.

2. I was told at the show that a 1953(s) in PCGS-MS65FS was just slabbed - so the pop may be 4/1 even today.

3. I would not be surprised if the pop went to 2 on the MS65FS coins in the near future. No guarantees, just that it would not surprise me.

4. IMHO, price would depend upon quality of the coin. Is the coin 5 1/2 strong steps or a coin that just sqeeked into a PCGS holder with 2 or 3 spots of merger in the steps? Is the grade really MS65, or MS64 that got lucky? These and other questions would be quite vital to assessing a fmv for such a coin IMHO.

Do I personally love mega-rarity Jeff nickels - yep - have done so for years. You may have noticed that the 1954(s) nickel in MS67FS just moved on the CU price guide from around $8,500 to $30,000 in one jump. That new price listing does not surprise me at all - good job JR

Wondercoin

dbldie55 · March 2, 2003 12:19PM

Does Franklin pricing affect Jefferson pricing? Heck, does the fact that the 66FBL would not find it's way into a FBL holder today affect pricing.

rwhite · March 2, 2003 1:23PM

I am just curious what 53-s FS Jeffs sell for. They seem to me to be such a rarity that i'm not sure they have reached their full potential. Am I out of line thinking $6-8k for a 64FS and $30k? $50k? or more for a 65FS? Are these figures way high or too low?

baccaruda · March 2, 2003 1:53PM

you should ask leothelion -

his sig says "owner of the $100,000 FS 53-s Jefferson"

jom · March 2, 2003 2:00PM

The price has to do with DEMAND also. And from what I can tell from just reading this message board, Franklin's are far more popular so I would suspect the Franklin would go for more dough. But things change so you never know.

jom

wingedliberty · March 2, 2003 7:53PM

I think that both are very rare and I would buy both.

Brian.

rwhite · March 3, 2003 12:47AM

I agree. Both are great coins to own.

leothelyon · March 3, 2003 1:38AM

<< you should ask leothelion -

his sig says "owner of the $100,000 FS 53-s Jefferson" >>

This one is just as good in or out of a PCGS holder. And it's not a misnomer. The sig is just another way to
say it's not for sale. I haven't seen one like it. I paid $130.

Leo

baccaruda · March 3, 2003 1:49AM

those sure look like Full Steps to me Leo.

jom · March 3, 2003 1:58AM

Leo: when did you buy that? Nice coin and good cherry pick!

jom

rwhite · March 3, 2003 7:10AM

killer strike! i love it.

leothelyon · March 3, 2003 11:19AM

<< Leo: when did you buy that? Nice coin and good cherry pick!

jom >>

I never made the coin. Credit goes to a Ken Chylinski who has made a few discoveries in Lincoln cent varieties. His dad actually had the rolls from where this coin came from. This coin almost went to the east coast but I beat Rich Sisti to it but he did get a very respectable FS 1969-D which I naively passed up. Other great coins I received from Ken included a ANACS MS66's 52-D and a 59 that looks MS67. Possibly
5-6 years back when added to my collection.

Leo

RGL · March 3, 2003 11:34AM

Leo: First time I have seen an image of your coin: You have to be one merry nickel numismatist

leothelyon · March 3, 2003 12:02PM

<< Leo: First time I have seen an image of your coin: You have to be one merry nickel numismatist

>>

RGL
I'm not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. There are definately better coins and collections out there then mine. I can still be like the kid in grampa's lap and be amazed by another collection of great coins. It's not about whose number one. I couldn't stand the limelight when I couldn't take all the credit.
I'm not as merry as you might think, nonetheless, I thank you for saying so. Like most, I do enjoy the hobby.

Leo

Ronyahski · March 3, 2003 12:13PM

I'd say $15,000.

solid · March 3, 2003 12:52PM

Hi Leo,

That sure is a nice nickel! Care to triple your money?

Ken

leothelyon · March 4, 2003 3:15AM

<< Hi Leo,

That sure is a nice nickel! Care to triple your money?

Ken >>

Ken

Did you mean $390 or $375,000?

It's funny how it's not worth one plum nickel since it doesn't walk
and quack like a duck. lol

Leo

keets · March 4, 2003 3:31AM

.......ah leo, that coin is pure joy if FS Jefferson's rock your world!!!

a solid grade throughout, clean and full. i can understand your regret for not snatching the 69, i've looked through far to many rolls. i am a firm believer that some dates in the series will never be found in a grade of MS66FS, but time may prove me wrong whenever coin redesign prompts frantic searching and grading.

as to the 1953-S half/nickel pricing question, jom answered most precisely that it all has to do with demand. existing pops of graded coins don't begin to tell the story of price when there aren't enough to meet collector demand. 65FBL franklins and 66FS silver jeffersons are areas where there seems to me to be an over abundance of coins and yet a strong enough collector demand to keep prices up. american capitalism at it's finest!!!

al h.

jom · March 4, 2003 3:34AM

Hey, Leo, which date is the toughest in FS? Do you think it's your 53-S or the one your friend back east got, the 69-D. I had always heard it was the 54-S, which I saw recently sold (sometime in the past year) for about $5000.

Just curious...

jom

leothelyon · March 4, 2003 4:17AM

<< Hey, Leo, which date is the toughest in FS? Do you think it's your 53-S or the one your friend back east got, the 69-D. I had always heard it was the 54-S, which I saw recently sold (sometime in the past year) for about $5000.

Just curious...

jom >>

I have heard the 53-S as the queen of the FS Jeffersons. Billy Walser could tell you more about the strike and steps of that 54-S. From the picture, the strike looked less than full. The 69-D was graded a raw MS64
and did not have 5 complete steps although, as I was told, it had most of the 6th step. I would have liked to have that coin despite it's 64 grade. I sold a 69-D that had 3 sharp steps and 50 to 60% of the 4th, 5th and 6th steps for $56. That coin was also very prooflike, an easy MS66 and had an EDS strike on a unusal extra thick planchet. Someday I hope to get that one back. Recently there was a 69-D with a 6646 bridge and nick step count on ebay. Depending upon how the coin and steps looked, I would pay only $15 to $25 for it although there are collectors who would have paid higher.
I could tell you more about FS Jeffersons but I think Al would prefer that I get his coin in the mail.

Leo

Schmitz7 · March 4, 2003 4:21AM

I believe time will show that the following modern dates in Full Steps are rarer than any of the pre- 1964 dates:

1966 (business strike, not the SMS)
1967 (business strike, not the SMS)
1968-D
1969-D
1969-S

Just my opinion, but the pop. reports prove me right thus far

keets · March 4, 2003 4:25AM

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

al h.

baccaruda · March 4, 2003 4:30AM

I have heard the 53-S as the queen of the FS Jeffersons

well then what's the King?

keets · March 4, 2003 4:39AM

the king may be any of several dates, some mentioned by tim. i have looked at way to many rolls of 69-D's to believe a FS gem will ever be found, at least by me in a roll. there is a sweet mint set on hold at the local dealers that has a PL 4 step coin in it, though i don't recall if it's a D or S.

i try to be forever optimistic with well struck jeffersons. certainly an increased interest in the series will jack up prices, but it should also get more nice coins and possibly some scarce dates and grade rarities into the market.

al h.

cladking · March 4, 2003 9:04AM

A much smaller percentage of the post-'64 gems have been slabbed than the
older nickels. Until recently many people didn't collect the more recent dates so
these coins have not been graded as long. This, of course, doesn't change the
fact that some are quite rare or probably don't exist (like the 68-D). There are
also several of the late date coins which appear in FS but rarely in FS & gem.
There are also a few with "substantial" populations in the highest grade, but
very few in the just-missed grades.

leothelyon · March 4, 2003 10:34AM

<< I believe time will show that the following modern dates in Full Steps are rarer than any of the pre- 1964 dates:

1966 (business strike, not the SMS)
1967 (business strike, not the SMS)
1968-D
1969-D
1969-S

Just my opinion, but the pop. reports prove me right thus far

>>

Tim's been around longer then I have but only 19 posts. Maybe this was why his collection was so high up in the pcgs registry standings. But speaking of the 68-D, here's mine and the quarter 5th is very weak
under the 3rd pillar but there is a nice quarter 6th step to help support the steps. The mark on Jeff's coat is more like a break in the planchet then a nick. The strike and blue-gold toning are MS67. I'll be back soon with the rest of the story down memory lane about this coin.

Leo

leothelyon · March 4, 2003 12:20PM

The above 68-D was a Bill Fivas coin from his collection that sold in Sept. 1994 and Jan. 1995 through the Ramapaugh Trading Company of Susan and Richard Sisti. There were two 1968-D's in that collection, one was listed as having 5.50 steps and sold for $404. The other was listed as having 4.25 steps which I paid
$28. Later I had the coin certified for it's eye appeal and it came back as having 5 steps. For those who are familiar with the old PAK way of counting quarter steps will understand what that means. The quarter steps count for this coin is 6545. I had the opportunity to discuss this coin with Bill Fivas when the Central States coin show was held in Chicago. He told me he had a very nice full step 1968-D in his collection. He also mentioned that he was surprised it sold for over $400. I reminded him that I didn't have that coin but had his other 68-D and he came back with, yes, that was a very nice one too and said he was surprised that it certified. I have no idea on the whereabouts of the other 1968-D and I;m aware of a 3rd 68-D with very respectable steps.

Leo

tlhill · March 10, 2003 1:42PM

Leo,

I purchased this 1953-S at the Long Beach Expo about 10 days ago. I paid $20.00 for this 1953-S. That's right,
$20.00. I showed it to Darrell Crane at the Full Step Nickel Club table, and he said that it was a $500.00 to
$700.00 coin. This is the best one I've seen in 3 years of collecting. Mine too is not for sale.

Terry

leothelyon · March 10, 2003 11:23PM

Great find Terry,
The name sounds familiar. How's the strike and grade of your coin? Amazingly, there are many 53-S with weak strikes but yet they have full steps. I've come across many and have sold a few for around $100 ea.
How's your collection coming along? Use the PM icon if you prefer.

Leo

cladking · March 11, 2003 6:05AM

Wow! Great 68-D. And that's only the second best? It's better than anything
I've seen as far as strike. (it's very well preserved too). Truly top-notch.

merysu · March 11, 2003 8:20AM

Leo, I love that 53s of yours, is it an EDS? Why haven't you had it graded? -mark-

clackamas · March 11, 2003 9:04AM

The 60-D and 61-D HAVE to be the co-kings. If you have ever looked at these rolls you would know why. Both have a total graded pop of 1 in FS.

tlhill · March 14, 2003 4:04AM

Leo,

The coin is graded MS63. The strike is like most Jeffersons; alright. My collection is coming along OK. Obviously, I'm looking for the keys: 60D,61D,68D,69D. There are still some others that I'm looking to upgrade. That keeps me busy most of the time.

Terry

keets · March 14, 2003 4:39AM

welcome aboard terry. open up that PM function and tell us where you hang your hat.

al h.

leothelyon · March 14, 2003 4:57AM

Terry
You might find something in my last price list over in the BST forum.

Leo

cupronik · March 14, 2003 6:46AM

This is a very interesting thread to read and enjoy. Thanks to all
who contributed their FS 5c experience.

Its obvious to me for any rare FS 5c to bring stratospheric money
it will have to receive the certification from PCGS. There are
"almost" Jeffs in non-FS holders that are real finds in them-
selves but won't bring their value because of the lack of the
superlative designation. As in SLQ, Mercs, and Franklins, an
all-or-nothing proposition.

What do the old PAK members do when they have something
special but cannot get PCGS to "FS" the nickel?

1953-s - Jefferson vs. Franklin

Comments

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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