Need a gold expert (california gold?)

Draco

Recently found and I'm not completly sure what they are or how they would grade. These bad scans are the best I can do. These coins are VERY tiny (and I thought half dimes were small).





1853 only
1854 only

MrKelso

The 1853 seems all wrong to me from the ones i have seen.

DesertLizard

Replicas or fakes IMHO.

eureka

Both are gilt brass and date to the 1960's-70's, and usually sell for $2-10.
These types of reverses can be difficult to attribute since they are similar to 1930's-1940's era tokens that were made in both plated brass and real gold. At least one or two companies made tokens during that time frame. Most known of these are the bear reverse 1932 LA Olympiad tokens, 1935 San Diego Expo, and 1936 Bay Bridge tokens.
To further confuse the issue, original real gold tokens of similar type reverses date back to the early 1900's (pre 1920). Nathan Joseph made center star reverse tokens in 10-14k gold circa 1910, and M.E. Hart made bear reverse tokens in 10k gold circa 1915-1920, most notable among those are the tokens in the "Coins of the Golden West" sets sold at the 1915 Pan Pac Expo.

Draco

Talk about busting my bubble. . .

Thanks for the info, eureka. You saved me a few dollars in submission fees.

eureka

PCGS only encapsulates denominated Cal Gold, meaning it has to say dollar or cents or an abbreviation of that. Even then, there are a handfull of denominated coins that they won't slab.
There's no good reference work on the tokens out, but Mike Locke is doing some great research in this area. There are a couple different books on denominated Cal Gold, the best being the 1982 Breen-Gillio book which is what PCGS uses to attribute. There's a new edition of this book due out very soon, so I'd wait for that rather than paying large $ for the first edition.

coinkat

Just curious... what do most of the 1932 Olympic gold tokens sell for? In addition, what about some of these early Cal Gold repro tokens from the 1910-15 era... how collectible are they?

eureka

The 1932 LA Olympiad tokens are gilt brass. There are two types(5 total varieties.) One has a sprinter and the other a discus thrower on the obverse, and both have the California Gold 1/2 with a bear reverse. I recently decided to try and put together a set of some of the oddball "gold" tokens from this era: the 1932 LA Olympiads, 1935 San Diego expo, and 1936 Bay Bridge, which all have the California Gold 1/2 bear reverses. All these are all gilt brass. However, there are instances in which reverse die linked Liberty/Indian head obverses were struck in both gilt brass and solid gold. In any event, I just purchased 3 of the 5 varieties of the Olympiad tokens with prices ranging from $10 to $50.
I also planned to add the 1939-1940 Golden Gate Expo gold Pacifica tokens to my set of gold tokens from this era. These were struck in different metals, but I'll be going after the ones made with 10-22k gold. Some of these have been attributed as so-called dollars by HK. These did not have the same types of reverses as mentioned, but I thought it would go well with the time period and event theme.

As far as the earlier real gold pieces, you're safest bet is to stick to the ones made by M.E. Hart for that Coins of the Golden West set I mentioned. These include the various state gold tokens from California, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Alaska and Oregon and are 10k gold. Fewer than 10 original sets exist, and complete sets without the original holder are almost as rare. You can see a picture of an original advertisement, and a color image of an original set on Mike Locke's website here.
Depending on condition those coins range from $50 to $300. The Alaskan Parka heads and Washington state ones are very hard to find and will cost more.

The early 10k & 14k Nathan Joseph center star reverse tokens are indeed collectable but not nearly as well documented. They're easily confused with more modern brass pieces. These generally sell for $30-50. You can occasionally get them very cheap, as many dealers consider anything "with a bear" or non-denominated to be junk(not real). Until definative research has been completed, I'd probably recommend steering clear to avoid buying moderns reproductions as real gold. Hopefully Mike Locke will get to that point someday soon. At last count, he told me he has over 1400 Cal Gold token varieties documented (ranging from the old to modern). The hard part is linking them to a specific time period or maker, and determining the actual metal content.

coinkat

Thanks Eureka... very informative post.

MrKelso

Thanks eureka
I am cutting your reply and posting it into my notes in my books.