Stealing Scans / Image Theft

mrichards

Hi Everyone,
This has been a pretty hot topic of many other posts on this board. I have been in the computer business for many years and know there are definite ways to protect JPEG’s, bitmaps and other image formats from being lifted off websites. I just read and posted a comment on the Chris Renaud topic on fake auctions on Ebay and just looked at another post, which has a link to Library of Congress Website, which shows many scans of older cards. This promotes image theft. It's becoming too easy to lift/steal scans and post them on Ebay to some poor buyer/victim who is going to get scammed. If you did not know about the site or saw the scan before and remembered it, there would be no reason why you wouldn't bid on a $1 no reserve auction of vintage cards.

Many of these sites (including PSA's registry) should start protecting their scans. There are websites in the past I have been on where I wanted to save a picture and use it as my desktop in Windows and when I right-Clicked to save the picture, a box came up and said I could not.

I think this would stop some of the scamming going on.

Mike

AlanAllen

Couldn't you just do a Print Screen and trim the picture down in any photo editing software?

Joe

crazysc

The easiest way to prevent scans from being stolen is to add something unique to them...

mikeschmidt

As a buyer -- I can tell you it is exceptionally convenient for my record-keeping to be able to simply download a nice, clear scan of the card I receive so that I don't have to scan it myself once it arrives.

I agree that some sort of protection might be warranted -- but on the other hand, if you are unsure about a particular seller on EBay -- perhaps you shouldn't be bidding on his/her auctions in the first place. If you have established relationships with those dealers from whom you consistently buy -- then you are protecting yourself. Buyers are somewhat obligated to educate theirselves in these matters -- and I feel little compassion for any established ebay bidder who purchases a high-dollar card from a new seller running a private auction with no feedback.

JeffVN

Well said. There are many cards being "sold" on ebay that I would love to bid on or buy. But I've become a bit skittish of late, after seeing the percentage of bad deals on E-Bay sky-rocket. As a result, I probably pass on 6 cards that I need every week simply because the seller does not meet my experience expectations or they have high neagtive feedback.

As to scans, It is possible to brand on a scan, but then your buyer can't use it as his own scan in the future. the nice thing about scans of cards that you own, is that the scan also includes the Cert. number (for PSA cards anyway) and makes it easier to show specific identification in case of theft or fire.

goodriddance189

how do you add a "signature" (for lack of a better term) on a scan? like a logo or a "property of ___" symbol. while image theft is rare i think this would help alleviate the problem

aro13

I know crazycanuck on ebay uses something on each of their scans to protect image theft:

Preventing Image Theft

Virtualizard

This is a good topic of conversation, but I don't know what can be done. There are always ways around any attempts to block image theft. For instance, as someone already mentioned, with an image that is not downloadable you can use "print screen" and edit the file in any photo editor. Granted, the quality will be diminished, but you would still have a complete picture of the card including cert #. The other option that has been mentioned is to add some sort of signature, logo, or copyright to the scan. These can all be easily edited out of any .jpg or .bmp file with the software included with most scanners and printers.

The only thing I can come up with is to include the cert # in your item description on ebay and not post a scan, but state that scans are available to any interested bidders by email. This way, you could screen any prospective bidders before emailing them a scan by checking out their feedback. This would still not prevent anyone from stealing the cert # and entering it into a registry set or listing another ebay auction with the information and no scan.

Any other suggestions? I'll keep thinking about it.

JEB.

Virtualizard

<< <i>I know crazycanuck on ebay uses something on each of their scans to protect image theft:

Preventing Image Theft >>




I just did a little "work" on CrazyCanuck's Pedro Martinez just to prove my point:





The card on the left is the original and the one on the right is the one that I touched up. I did a quick (and kind of sloppy) job of it, but sized the scan smaller so it's not as noticeable. Anyone can do this. With a high dollar card, it would pay to take several hours and do pixel by pixel editing. This can be (and probably is) done by some of these scammers.

As far as CrazyCanuck's attempt at preventing image theft, adding something like that to a scan is very ineffective and I hope that I proved that. I literally spent about 2 minutes touching up that scan.

JEB.

waitilltheytrytosell

You can steal a scan. You can doctor a scan. You can create a virtual scan from scratch. You can block the serial number on the fake scan and tell people you are protecting them. Need a serial number? Make one up, or pull any one you like from the tens of thousands of auction catalogs floating around for 10+ years. Feel Lucky? Punch in a random number into the cert verification until something pops up you can make money on, and build your card from scratch. Eventually there comes a time when you have to deliver something, and of course you can't, and you will eventually be caught. You can't stop people from trying to rip other people off. A lot of bad auctions are spotted and removed, but you can't spot and stop them all. Put a watermark on your scans or "no right click" code in your auctions if it make you feel good. Just know that it means absolutely nothing to somebody who wants to use your scan. Don't hurt yourself by not posting a scan. It only causes suspicion and an inconvenience to your potential buyer by making them jump through hoops to request a scan. The best defense against this is by simply using a little common sense and care with whom you might be potentially dealing with. So many times these scams are so blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer, but there always seems to be somebody willing to take a chance, just in case it is for real.

Virtualizard

Waitill...,

Agreed. You've pretty much summed up the points that I was trying to get across in my posts.

As a seller: Don't hurt yourself by not posting a scan.

As a buyer: If you don't know the seller, ask questions. I have done this many times with questionable auctions (as have many others here), and the responses from the seller almost always indicate if the auction is legitimate. Usually, if it's not legitimate, the seller will be hostile or vague - just avoid these and don't place a bid. If it is legitimate, the seller will usually try to accomodate any request and explain their side of the story.

JEB.

jimrupprecht

In terms of blocking a right-click, getting around it is trivial, and even easier that the screen-shot option. All you have to do is save the page to disk and then go get the image that IE will nicely grab for you and put in a folder. Alternately, every image you download lives in your browser cache. All ya have to do is rename it.

One method that might work is to use a embedded digital signature. They are almost impossible to remove (even if you resize, resample, etc.) unless you completely destroy the image quality. Many even survive extensive cropping. Some DS vendors will even let you search for them on the web.

-
Jim Rupprecht

Looking for 1950-56 Callahan HOF cards that I can send to PSA and let them destroy. Ok, and even some I can keep for myself, too.

chrisrenaud

I think that the best way to stop this from happening is not from trying to stop people from stealing scans but by punishing those who steal scans so that people actually fear being put in jail or losing their financial assets for doing these things - the moment that some are caught and made an example of, the more people will think before trying scams, although there will always be thieves.

As such, if anyone has had similar experiences to what I have seen the last few days with the Campanella (see other post) either let me know Sunday at Ft Washington or email me, as I am trying to build a broader case to take to the authorities.

All the best

Chris

Wabittwax

You're right Chris, I hope you nail that SOB to the wall. (Jail cell wall that is)