Vam specialists -- need your opinion on `83-CC

lava

Maybe this is something that is common place, but I don't recall seeing it. It is an 1883-CC morgan, with what looks like a stogie coming out of the eagle's mouth, which I assume is attributed to a die gauge. Anyone see this before? I don't see this in the vam book. I have it on ebay, but only just discovered the stogie.
eagle with stogie ,will soar, but for how far?

lava

any thughts out there on this one?

jeffnpcb

Kind of looks like his tongue?? Although, light him up and let's see the whole bird too!!!!

mrfred

I agree that it is some kind of gouge or damage to the die. It should be a new variety.

Look's more like a lizard tongue to me.

Gilbert

Besides the die gouge, what would it have been attributed as? Are there any other features that would differentiate it as some other die marriage?

lava

I didn't examine it for other quirks, but I will tonight. I do know it has clashed dies that are visible without magnification.

lava

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I have now looked at a lot of other `83-cc morgans, and I have yet to find this type of die gouge.

Gilbert

Well, I wanted to take a look for you, but it would help to know if it is an already attributed die pair that was subsequently gouged, or possibly an unattributed reverse die. Can you post a decent pic of the complete coin?

lava

Link to Entire Coin

Gilbert

Lava,

That is one nice looking coin. Sorry for buggin' you for a pic, but I just can't get close enough to nail it down one way or the other. Date and MM look like they may have some doubling, but I think you already have the VAM Book, and know that five of the eight varieties have doubled dates; VAM 7 has a doubled MM, and the others have die chips around the MM. Couldn't distinguish if doubled or die chips. I didn't see a dash 8, so it's probably not VAm 3 or 4.

Anyway, I asked about the details so I could eliminate it as one of the attributed VAMs before inquiring of the "big dogs." They don't seem to take to well to being bothered with attribution of an already attributed coin. Once or twice it was brought to my attention that "every single detail" isn't listed so unless there is a significant characteristic to be questioned, I try to avoid contacting them for assistance, In other words, I try to exhaust all avenues before bugging Van Allen or Fey. If you've got a buddy in SSDC, maybe they can give you another direction.

I don't hold membership and find that my emails regarding attribution don't get answered from there. Personally, I don't think the die gouge (?) will cause much stir; it's tough to see on the auction images, so I assume it's a little tough to see with the naked eye, and to me that means an inquiry probably won't be received well.