Needed - AT coins -- that's right it isn't a typo

FrattLaw · February 24, 2003 1:43PM

If you haven't read the "Lets try FrattLaw's idea" thread then you might be wondering. But with Coinguy, gsaguy, Stman, Coppercoins & JMoores' help, we are going to try this educational website idea.

But we need AT coins. We want to submit them on your behalf to either PCGS or NGC (your choice) for grading. We pay the fee. If it gets slabbed, great you have a toned coin in a slab for free. If it doesn't and it gets BBed for questionable toning, we get to use the coin and its image on our website. No reference will be made to you, the buyer or the seller. All submissions remain anonymous. A small paragraph will be penned as to why PCGS/NGC might have BBed the coin for questionable toning. If you don't want the coin back and would like to donate it to us, it will be added to a AT Library and remain off the market, will not be resold or resubmitted for further grading and if you want the coin back later, it'll be returned.

We aren't looking for marginally questionable coins. We want the blatant AT coins.

Got AT, let us know if your interested. All denominations welcome, all donations welcome.

Michael

gsaguy · February 24, 2003 2:01PM

Michael,

At a show last July in Alabama, I bought a couple of coins out of an album that I thought were really interesting.

I like the toning on both (one Morgan and one Peace dollar) but am not convinced that they represent original toning. Something about them just doesn't look right. I put them away with the intention of sending them in for certification one of these days.

I'll bring both to LB and either submit them myself or let the new AT research group do so. If they are indeed artificially toned, I think both will make very good examples for the project.

GSAGUY

Mrpawn · February 24, 2003 2:24PM

Where do you want them sent?

I am not a doctor but I can provide you a few that have already fooled me but not PCGS. The information gained from critical evaluation would be worth more that a plastic bag that says"Questionable Color".

Dog97 · February 24, 2003 2:40PM

I have PLENTY.

FrattLaw · February 24, 2003 3:02PM

So far we have $700 pledged for grading fees -- a nice start. Probably enough for 50 submissions, depending on the coins.

Please PM with what coins you have and whether they have already been BBed. If you have pics that would be great as well. -- email to my work email. If your coin is accepted, I'll let you know where they can be sent. And I'll send you the necessary releases and waivers for signature. We are looking for varied toning patterns as well as denominations and dates. Postage to send the coins to us is on you, return postage is on us. Also let me know if you will be donating the coin if it gets BBed.

Thanks for the assistance and support.

Michael and the gang!

stman · February 24, 2003 3:08PM

Frattlaw, are you saying if the coin someone sends gets slabbed, it's for free and they get the coin?

Not that I think anyone would take advantage of this

But be careful on what you promise.

FrattLaw · February 24, 2003 3:32PM

We are offering to submit your blatant AT coins. Further, we do retain the right to refuse to submit any coin that has been offered. This isn't a free grading service. But if you have an AT coin or one that you think is AT and we submit it and it some how gets in a slab by PCGS or NGC, yes you get it free.

But if it gets BBed we get to use it for the website free. Simple. We take the monetary risk on grading fees.

Before bombarding me with requests to submit your coins, I'll need a nice, big pic. If we agree to accept the coin for submitting from the pic, then you can send it over. Don't send pics of coins that aren't AT just to try to get a free grading. Don't send photoshop altered pics, they'll be matched to the coin. If it doesn't look the same, we'll send the coin back to you. This is a lot of work and none of us have the time to wade through dozens of pics of real toned coins that have been cracked out and you're looking for a free ride.

Show some respect for those trying to do this and their time.

Michael

gmarguli · February 24, 2003 3:43PM

We aren't looking for marginally questionable coins. We want the blatant AT coins.

I don't get this. You want a blatant AT coins to submit so it gets bodybagged. Why not just take pictures of the coins and forget about sending them to the grading services.

Are you looking for "proof" that they are AT?

If so, then submitting them will mean nothing. The grading services will slab AT coins and reject natural toned coins. You may want to get a free opinion from ANACS. They will tell you a little about the process of the AT and did I mention, it is FREE.

Also, how many blatant AT coins are fooling people? It's usually the good or marginal AT coins that fool people. Aren't these the coins you should be focusing on?

stman · February 24, 2003 3:47PM

<< <i>Also, how many blatant AT coins are fooling people? It's usually the good or marginal AT coins that fool people. Aren't these the coins you should be focusing on? >>

Good point, that's what I was feeling. Even though from some posts on here asking is this AT? many have been pretty blatent AT.

FrattLaw · February 24, 2003 3:55PM

Sure, but we gotta start somewhere. And the people that are getting fooled are those with very little or no idea about toning or numismatics - not most of the members of this Board. Start with the obvious, show people what to look for and work towards those that are marginally AT and finally to those that are very, very good examples of AT. Like I said this isn't the almighty answer to all coin doctors or all artifical toning, just a start.

The reason for submitting them is to have an expert, professional third party grading service's opinion. Market acceptability will be a topic for a later date and after the site is up and running.

It will also be interesting to see what PCGS and NGC will slab. How many blatant AT coins will slide through, if any, and that will be an interesting bi-product of this endeavor.

Michael

dwood · February 24, 2003 9:37PM

It sounds to me like ya'll are the experts, and PCGS is the one needing to do more research?

FrattLaw · February 24, 2003 10:19PM

CYBERKEN · February 24, 2003 10:35PM

I detect here a building fad for the alteration of proof and uncirculated coins. I guess every era has its equivalent of the Great Meltdown. Only the reasons change, not the net effect. And when one melts, scratches, or otherwise ruins a coin, it remains so forever.

Will Rogers said, "If they'd make more rare coins, we'd ALL be rich."

The same idea would seem apply to making coins more rare.

Think I'll stick with my "as white as possible" strategy...

Lori · February 24, 2003 11:20PM

Heres one for you.

Lori

stman · February 24, 2003 11:42PM

Lori, I remember you posting this coin, sorry to see a board member fell into something like this coin and believing the seller that it is a good coin. But I feel this would be a a good candidate for the project since you actually did buy this in the open market at a coin show. Please learn from all this.

FC57Coins · February 24, 2003 11:52PM

Michael - I have a couple of Morgans that I'm pretty certain are AT - let me know what I need to do to send them to you.

Frank

FrattLaw · February 25, 2003 12:26AM

If you want your coins consider for submitting through us ....

We need a nice pic, obverse and reverse. Something that will truly show the coin. A brief history of the coin, ie I bought it raw at a show, Ebay, auction, ect, it was in a brand XXXX slab but I cracked it out, ect, whether it has been previously submitted and to what service as well as the result, any other info you think is pertinent, but DON'T tell us the dealer or Ebay ID of anyone you purchased the coin from. If you do it'll get bounced. I don't want any conflicts of interest or possible discrimination against certain sellers/dealers/ebay sellers.

I'll have our group look at the coin and decide if we want to submit your coin. If its a yes, I'll email you with shipping information as well as provide you with a waiver.

email pics to --- mike@kslegal.com

Michael

cosmicdebris · February 25, 2003 12:32AM

cosmicdebris · February 25, 2003 12:33AM

I have been told this is not AT, would this one work?

Russ · February 25, 2003 1:18AM

<< <i>We aren't looking for marginally questionable coins. We want the blatant AT coins. >>

Michael,

Is this blatant enough?

How about this one?

Russ, NCNE

IrishMike · February 25, 2003 2:12AM

Do you only want raw coins? If I send a slabbed one will you submit cross at any grade? I have a 63 IHC, I don't care if it crosses lower, but I would want it sent in its holder. Not to worry, it isn't AC* holdered.

mbbiker · February 25, 2003 2:39AM

Why don't you send your coins to ANACS they don't cost as much (you could get more coins for your money) and they will get slabbed as AT even if they are AT.

FrattLaw · February 25, 2003 3:08AM

Eventually, we will want slabbed coins, maybe as a comparison, but for right now, let's go with raw. There might be some prejudice on the part of a gradng company with crossover slabbed toned coins from a "lesser" service and the coin might get BBed for other reasons. Trying to keep this as stright forward as possible.

ANACS might be a viable option in the future, but I think most would agree that PCGS and NGC are the top two with ANACS a close third.

Michael

Dog97 · February 25, 2003 4:02AM

gmarguli-
WE do want a blatant AT coins to submit so it gets bodybagged!
Not the no-brainers from a crayon or spray paint but the better ones that people post her asking about.
The point of all this is to have an Official Expert Opinion

with former graders telling us WHY rather than the inconsistent and sometimes incorrect opinions posted on this board that the coin may be an AT AU58 that was cooked in a potato, it may be an original bag toned MS63 or it might be an album toned ms68 that may be original or AT.
Something a little more credible since this site will be linked from other major sites and needs to be "legit."
Anyway including remarks like "This coin looks bad because of the way the colors blah blah blah and 3 major services confirmed it." or "This coin looks good because of the way the colors blah blah blah but 3 major services body bagged it." And Mr. Former NGC Grader says look at the blue. Wrong shade of blue. That's from a blowtorch.

No mile high blurry eBay type pictures to confuse the issue either, picts by professional photographer.

wallstreetman · February 25, 2003 4:17AM

mbbiker, You get what you pay for in this world! In this case, I believe you get more than you pay for! An example; Is $2 worth $20, $200, $2000?

Needed - AT coins -- that's right it isn't a typo

Comments

Leave a Comment