Hoarding Coins so no one else can have them

cosmicdebris · February 22, 2003 8:07PM

Who out there does this? You know goes out and buys up all the Pop Top coins just so their set remains at the top and others can not get these coins for their registry sets.

itsnotjustme · February 22, 2003 11:00PM

Then I destroy them!

fantasiize · February 22, 2003 11:03PM

Bill,

I can think of at least a dozen or so folks here that do that (I won't state any names to keep the innocent, innocent) but look on eBay when certain coins come up. Also, I think that a few more folks probably place bids up to a certain $ amount, to at least maintain the price level for the stash they have. To me, this is very dangerous or at least time consuming (sort of like having to watch your back all the time).

A few years ago (oh, probably 1985 to 1987, and then again in 1997 to 1998) I was guilty with the 1899p Morgans, not necessarily pop top, but almost anyone I could find in at least XF. My theory was that this particular date and mintmark was the overlooked one in the Morgan series (you know sort of like when you play guitar, you'll be the only one that will find that one special note that will make you a rock and roll star or that one invention that nobody else considered - even though the patent office has an entire floor dedicated to your invention proposal as well as 50,000 invention variations). BTW, that was the longest sentence that I have ever written.

Back to the topic, hoarding is a dangerous proposal, if your pop tops keep coming out and you (somewhat) control the "supply side" of the equation but the demand side of the equation is uncontrollable. You probably need to be on the leading edge of the cycle and smart enough to sell when the selling is good to be successful at it.

So after the rambling, theorizing, soliloquy above, to answer your question, I do not do this (any more).

cosmicdebris · February 23, 2003 12:15AM

Some other thoughts:
Are the people doing this hurting or helping the registry?

Should the registry be more of a help each other out thing?
Where we help each other get the best coins for the best prices.

Or should it be a cut throat dog eat dog world?
Where we hoard the coins, drive up the prices and stab
each other in the back while the dealers rake in all the
profits from our own stupidity?

cladking · February 23, 2003 12:32AM

At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to defend hoarding, it is human nature.
We're not talking about someone with no refrigerator who buys all the milk
in the store after an Earthquake. Collectors see things which interest them
and start buying. Often it can be a compulsion which has little if anything to
do with trying to corner a market or make a profit. It's likely impossible to
corner any part of the modern markets anyway. Those who attempt it will
probably lose in the long term because of the way the coins are distributed.
Even if successful one would find a huge hoarde very difficult to distribute at
high prices in an age of widespread instant communication.

If a hoarder is able to continue to control the available supply then he is paying
the highest price or he was knowledgeable enough to have known that some
coin was quite rare and few or no more would appear. Whether or not this type
of activity helps or hurts the markets is dependent on one's perspective and the
individual circumstance, but it has always prevailed and is not confined to one sec-
tor of one collectable.

itsnotjustme · February 23, 2003 12:42AM

The only way to get a small hoard (4-5) top pop coins distributed, would be to offer "the" coin simultaniously to many interested parties. They will know iothers are also ready to buy, and be likely to pay a decent price. Then after selling them all, the high demand is satisifed as many of the buyers already bought, and the next one to market will be very disappointed.

khayse · February 23, 2003 1:23AM

I would say that I don't do this.

I've bid on Ikes that I already have if I think they are a good deal (likely to be worth more than
I bid within a year). I don't see this as establishing a price floor. I'm not willing to take all comers
at that price. I just wouldn't mind picking up one or two at a good price if I could (I'm thinking 71-S in MS67 here).

About the worst thing I've done is a couple times after winning a coin at auction, there's a similar
coin that is going for less than my ended and I've bid it up around where mine ended. (fully
willing to pay that price if I won of course).

-KHayse

cosmicdebris · February 23, 2003 2:03AM

I had someone do that to me and then tell me about it after the auction ended. Cost me an extra $75.00.

DAM · February 23, 2003 2:21AM

<< <i>I had someone do that to me and then tell me about it after the auction ended. Cost me an extra $75.00. >>

Now that's just plain mean and hateful! If you knew the person, that's one thing. If it were an underbidder just wanting to say "ha ha", that stinks.

Regarding your question, I would hoard if I were trying to capitalize on upward prices. I wouldn't hoard just to protect a set I had in the Registry. To me the latter is trivial. But, if I owned a High Desert collection I might look things differently.

jcping · February 23, 2003 3:46AM

I have a pop 1/0 Barber dime. Does that consider "Hoarding Coin(s)" so that no one else can have it(them)

fantasiize · February 23, 2003 3:56AM

Good points thus far from good registry participants.

I do avoid bidding up friendly board members, especially if I already have the coin. Generally, I only bid that which I can afford AND feel that I will not lose money on, with the coin in the future. Also, as tastes change, I can use what I have previously accumulated towards trades with other coin collectors that are now interested in that series. I think that all of us (collectors) collect, speculate, and invest (use our disposable income to purchase now for selling at, hopefully profit, later) in varying degrees.

Not sure if you call it capitalism, enterpreneurship, savvy collecting or just plain greed, when two participants have the same information, capabilities and interests but one acts (vigorously/decisively) and the other does not, who is to blame and who benefits ? Depends on your side of the equation (profit, motivation, politeness or cooperation with your fellow human).

cointime · February 23, 2003 4:03AM

Bill,

I think what happened to you is a fair description of how the modern coins have come to be, in some respect. I would say 'cladking' made some very good points. They are not going to corner the market and it will probably hurt them in the long run. I see some coins going for prices that are way out of control. First let me say I do not want to blast anyone here, but I have a example to share. Here is a coin that sold on E-bay for a resonable price IMO, but more improtantly read his description and what he came up against when he decided to sell this 1996-P PCGS MS68 Kennedy half $ (wish I could have snagged it). It is a true fact of life that one must buy the coin and not the holder, but still remember that when you get ready to sell it, will you get most or all of the money you put into it?

Now for what I am feeling we will see is, after a few more novice collectors have this happen, we may see a down turn in these rocket prices moderns have captured lately. This is also something that makes updating current market values on moderns so difficult and possibly misleading. I watched a 1990-D MS67 Roosevelt sell the end of last month for almost $106.00 and today sell for $31.00

Does this mean this coin is only valued at 31.00 now? IMO, No! It was something that was not sought as a coin that was "I have to have for my set at any price" and more to what I feel (maybe a good value).

I don't think the boards are as they were when I 1st joined, in respect to what you were saying members would point out coins to other members. I do beleive this is still happening to some respect, but with the on sloth of new Registry set owners we are seeing a "survival of the fitest" to fight for these top pop coins. I can tell you my stand point.... If I cannot make the coin in the grade I want, then I will wait till it is in the price range I am willing to pay for it.

Good hunting all

Ken

pontiacinf · February 23, 2003 6:36AM

I agree 100%...

but that wont ever change

khayse · February 23, 2003 7:37AM

> I do avoid bidding up friendly board members
I agree with fantasiize here. I'm much less likely to bid on a coin I already have if I see registry people are bidding on it.

Of course if I REALLY need it then all bets are off.

-KHayse

Robgetty · February 23, 2003 7:38AM

It seems to me that it will always be a basic case of the relative demand for a coin at a given time.
If someone wants to bid up and "hoard" a certain high grade coin, then he will probably end up
hurting himself when he tries to sell. At the same time, when I see coins going from $25 in MS-65, to
$50 in MS-66 to $5,000 in MS-67, etc. , I have to pause because I don't see it as worthwhile to
pay that much for having the pop top coin. In that situation, if I can find a nice coin with good eye
appeal at the lower grade, then why spend the money for the pop top coin? (I know that I may be in
a definate minority with this opinion!

)

DMWJR · February 23, 2003 12:22PM

Some body is hording 1880 MS nickels . . . and they need to cough one up for me . . . .

oldcameoproofsguy · February 23, 2003 1:48PM

I have several pop ones in my collection, but I don't feel I'm hoarding them. I really want the best collection that I personally can put together. Even though I have a number of pop tops there is still enough room for another collector to blow my collection away.

relayer · February 23, 2003 4:35PM

All of the coins should be mine, all mine.

leothelyon · February 24, 2003 5:28AM

I do it to get the best coin. Knowing that all coins don't look the same in any single grade, if you buy 2,3 or 4 of that coin-grade, chances are one of them will standout above the others although they have received the same grade. The strike, brilliance, luster and toning can vary tremondously. The location of the marks on the coin also make a difference for the matter of choice. But yet, for high grade coins, we're limited to only 3 catagories, mainly MS65, 66 and 67 with 68 to 70 grades seldom used, for tht e exception of proofs.
But buying up top pop coins to keep a registry contender from gaining ground, equaling or bypassing you
in the standings is nonsense because the fact is, the coins do exist and the number of additional collections that can be improved, is only a matter of time. What kind of glory someone gets out of hoarding because he's got money because he can do so is a self serving motive that lacks sportmanship.

Leo

bigt · February 24, 2003 9:15AM

What Leo said and to add that I have done many "horizontal" upgrades if the coins are at reasonable cost.
I don't keep the spares very long, they are channeled back to the market.

Tim

quattrocoins · March 5, 2003 3:04AM

Russ · March 5, 2003 4:36AM

I hoard Accented Hairs.

Russ, NCNE

perfectstrike · March 5, 2003 11:11AM

And I'm hoarding 1971 proof Lincolns.

perfectstrike

quattrocoins · March 5, 2003 11:29AM

And I have two '55-D Washingtons!

One on Boardwalk and one one Park Place!!

Don

Hoarders with

Hoarding Coins so no one else can have them

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