Example of newbies being taken advantage of...edited to add something

jbsteven · February 22, 2003 5:58AM

what a shame to see someone pay this much for a $10.00 coin.

what are your thoughts on this?

where is that ebay fraud vigilante guy (scumnuker) when we need him to bid up a item!

ADDED:

He has another one for sale as a private auction

private auction one

mrfred · February 22, 2003 6:01AM

Smells like a copy to me. Bad news. Misrepresentation.

Russ · February 22, 2003 6:02AM

Unbelievable. Is this one that eBay would do anything about if reported? Has the seller crossed the line far enough?

Mrfred,

It is a copy. The seller even states it in the auction:

<< this very scarce commemorative coin >>

But, he does so in a very sneaky way that many bidders won't grasp.

Russ, NCNE

stujoe · February 22, 2003 6:05AM

If you are familiar with them, you know exactly what it is. Unfortunately, if you aren't, the auction doesn't really say much.

I am figuring it is this:

Linky Thingy

If so, it isn't even silver but sounds silver plated.

relayer · February 22, 2003 6:05AM

That's nothing.

I heard of a coin that was cleaned, but that fact wasn't listed in the ad.

mrfred · February 22, 2003 6:08AM

Russ - you are right.
I missed that!
Very devious.
And in any case, to a newcomer to the hobby, 'commemorative' might not denote 'copy'.

(Notice he does not show the reverse -- it's stamped 'copy', of course.)

Julian · February 22, 2003 6:10AM

As far as I am concerned, this is fraudulent. The listing says that this is a coin. Bidding history may possibly be shills. I would report this to Ebay. If you do not want to do it, tell me how.

coinguy1 · February 22, 2003 6:11AM

The seller makes mention that "Many have recently sold on ebay in exess of $300.00 each"

I don't know if that's true or not, but the two most recent ones I found, brought $55 and $51, while others went unsold, for less. Someone I know just sent an email to that effect to the high bidder.

jbsteven · February 22, 2003 6:12AM

slap them around mark..... errr someone you know I mean!

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 6:15AM

hehehehe... Now check it...

jbsteven · February 22, 2003 6:16AM

nice marty..........

dabugler · February 22, 2003 6:17AM

The description does elude to the "coin" being a "commemorative". Very sneaky!

Russ · February 22, 2003 6:19AM

Bwuahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Good one!

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1 · February 22, 2003 6:21AM

The seller does have another one listed, in case anyone wants to bid on it.

Link

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 6:22AM

Not at $19.99, way to cheap for my blood!!!

Askari · February 22, 2003 6:25AM

LOL!! Good one, Marty!!

<< After careful consideration, we have gone to our vault to release only a few single coins from our dwindling collection that was to be treasured for years to come. >>

He means "after we stopped drooling over how much we'd make...."

[Edited to correct my mistaken original impression that Marty had posted a bid on this scammer's auction. I apologize for any misdirection it may have caused.]

Askari · February 22, 2003 6:28AM

Shouldn't that repro have "COPY" engraved into it, by law? How does NCM get away with making them without that feature?

Askari · February 22, 2003 6:30AM

Ah, he's gone to a private auction so that he can't be exposed the same way again. Sneaky scalawag!

stujoe · February 22, 2003 6:35AM

They have copy on them. They just don't show it on their site or in their ads.

Linky to good auction for one.

dabugler · February 22, 2003 6:48AM

That one has a "National Collector's Mint Certificate of Authenticity". That's impressive.

stujoe · February 22, 2003 6:53AM

I don't consider them impressive but I have seen worse looking copies. I have no problem with them as numismatic items....when they are revealed as copies, shown as copies, and sold as copies.

MrLee · February 22, 2003 6:54AM

<< thesellerisaripoffartist(0) Cancelled
Explanation

hony bid from other ebay user Bid:Feb-22-03 13:12:33 PST
CancelledFeb-22-03 13:41:54 >>

ponzi187 · February 22, 2003 6:57AM

As always I am impressed with the vigilalance(sic) on this board...I wish I had you guys around when I bought my car...and my mail order bride Ling Ling...Could have saved some money there...

Petescorner · February 22, 2003 7:00AM



Isn't Ling Ling a panda? Wasn't there a pic??? No wonder you're POed!!!

Of course, I'm just kidding. I hope your wife isn't really named Ling Ling

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 7:00AM

No isn't that ID unique!!!

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 7:11AM

Check out the bid history!!!

Dog97 · February 22, 2003 7:13AM

BAH BAH BAHH That's the sound of dumb naive sheepeople being led to slaughter.
The bargain hunting bidders are clearly aware that a Proof Morgan is valuable but don't know that the mintage of 1889 CC Proofs was absolutely 0.
Why spoil their fun?

Russ · February 22, 2003 7:20AM

<< Isn't Ling Ling a panda? >>

Actually, it's a fish; an ugly one with a big head, but damned tasty.

Russ, NCNE

stujoe · February 22, 2003 7:21AM

Yes, it is often people's greed that seems to lead them down the road like sheep to the scams that are out there.

MrLee · February 22, 2003 7:21AM

This seller KNOWS what he's doing and the other buyers are going to be very sad/mad when they find out what they really bought. It's too bad eBay doesn't/won't monitor things being sold. They make their money now but it will drive away customers later.

Askari · February 22, 2003 7:22AM

Hey, if you cancel your bid, then don't you get to explain why ...?

[Edited to correct my mistaken original impression that Marty had posted a bid on this scammer's auction. I apologize for any misdirection it may have caused.]

Petescorner · February 22, 2003 7:23AM

OMG!!! Not only is Ling Ling a panda, but she's a "he"!!!!

I hope you neg'ed the seller!

Story

Russ · February 22, 2003 7:25AM

Askari,

Unfortunately, not anymore. eBay has changed it so one must select from three stock reasons.

Russ, NCNE

Dog97 · February 22, 2003 7:26AM

What is REALLY sad is that the seller of the good one stujoe linked, dukie101@aol.com, is actually an honest board member coin collector and will probably lose money on his.

Askari · February 22, 2003 7:29AM

Thanks, Russ. I should know by now not to underestimate eBay's ingenuity when it comes to protecting frauds from exposure.

MrLee · February 22, 2003 7:32AM

Russ, you're thinking of the Ling Cod.

Common name : Ling Cod
Scientific Name : Ophiodon elongatus
Location Found : Edmonds Underwater Park, Central Puget Sound

MrLee · February 22, 2003 7:36AM

<< Bidding is closed for this item. >>

HaHaHaHa. Good job guys.

Askari · February 22, 2003 7:37AM

Gee, guess he didn't like the free advertising he was getting.

Russ · February 22, 2003 7:38AM

MrLee,

That fish looks AT'd to me.

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin · February 22, 2003 7:46AM

Check out the explanation for cancelling the middle bid.

Askari · February 22, 2003 7:46AM

Goldinsure is back at what he does best ... selling ink cartridges. Maybe he could tone your fish, MrLee!

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 8:42AM

The seller sent me an E-Mail stating he is reporting me to E-bay and having all my auctions canceled. All I did was comment on the his bids. What is he talking about???
This is the E-Mail I reveived...

<< We have received a recent messsage from several ebay users that you are attepting to sabotage an auction we're running by creating screen names and placing false bid. The report has been forwarded to safe harbor and ebay and we have been told that a suspension to all your auctions is pending. We have also forwarded a thread which was left with an IP address trace.
I wish you luck >>

airplanenut · February 22, 2003 8:52AM

*edited so it's not taken wrongly

Askari · February 22, 2003 8:59AM

So what do you think eBay will say/do to him when they learn he's a fraud? It was rather dumb of him to forward the thread to safeharbor. I know, I know, they'll just ignore him and presume that he'd have refunded the money if the high bidder realized it was a $10 copy and demanded his money back. If his nuckles are rapped, he'll just plead ignorance about coins.

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 9:13AM

I just can't get over that the seller is reporting ME to safeharbor. If is commiting fraud and because I told every to look at the bid history he assumes that I posted the bids!!!

ah · February 22, 2003 9:15AM

You know the saying "let the buyer beware", I think it also applies in the
the ebay arena also.

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 9:23PM

I 2 other E-Mails from the seller this morning. Stating:

<< Marty,
I received a response late this evening from both ebay and safe harbor regarding the matter at hand. They have asked for me to provide them the thread that clearly shows MadMarty discussing my listing and telling people to "look at it now hehehe" and then the response from the others. You could have denied in your prvious email to me that you were involved in that forum but you vlearly stated in your email that you were involved. Apparenlty, when I provided what I thought was the right link, I missed a charachter and they were unable to view the contents. As I was typing the information and about to send it again, I realized that because of your actions, I am out atleast the high bid of $247.50 which was showing at the time of your foolishness.
From where I stand, you owe me the money. If safe harbor and ebay get this information, and there is no doubt that you were the one, they will start their investigation and all 71 auctions you have listed will be suspended and all high bidders will be released. A coworker of mine tried something similar and his auctions were suspended within 12 hours of the alledged claim. From the quick calculations I did, you stand to lose a whole lot more than $247.50.
If I don't have $247.50 deposited in my paypal account by the morning of 2/23/03 representing the money lost from your actions, the information will go directly to both authorities highlighting your activity. Your opinion of one's auction is your right, the fraudulent bid to ruin one's auction is illegal. You make your choice Marty.
My paypal account number is the same as my email address. I suggest you do the right thing and avoid what actions would be taken immediately. Take Care my freind!! >>

<< By the way, you're probably wondering how the heck I got this information. One of your so called friends participating in the forum was kind enough to share the information with me and said he would cooperate with ebay as long as his name remains anonymous. I have assured him of this and have made him well aware of how this is being handled.
I have attached a copy of the link for you to review just in case you're having decision problems with the prior email sent.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=169492 >>

jbsteven · February 22, 2003 9:49PM

hmmmm bummer

this is to the seller:

My opinion is that you were committing fraud in your auction and were taking advantage of newbie collectors. How much did that item cost you? You stated that others had sold for $300, but we did a search and only found 2 that ended for roughly $55-$60. Did you show the reverse that had copy written on it? You stated "1889 CC Morgan Proof Dollar" in your item title but no mention of "collectors item" or copy. This I believe is where you crossed the line. If you have a clear mind about selling this item why did you not relist it?

that's my opinion and what is yours? If the seller is reading this then go ahead and register with the forum and tell us YOUR side of the story.

copperhead · February 22, 2003 9:57PM

That is exactly why I mind my own business and don't get involved unless it involves me directly. GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you the best.

MadMarty · February 22, 2003 10:11PM

I have reported the seller to the power sellers safe harbor, I sent them the link to the thread and the E-Mails the seller sent me. I also asked the seller for proof (not just an assumption) the I bid on his auction. (I did not). According to E-Bay the seller demanding

<< If I don't have $247.50 deposited in my paypal account by the morning of 2/23/03 representing the money lost from your actions, the information will go directly to both authorities highlighting your activity. >>

is extortion, and is against E-Bays policy.

I also responded to him that he is not out $247.50, but the 30 cent listing fee. I think if the seller does not just drop it and relist his item correctly, this might get real interesting.

DHeath · February 22, 2003 10:59PM

I think this would make a fascinating article. The hobby protection act requires clear notification that an item being offered is not genuine. It's a shame ebay doesn't. Maybe it is time for the hobby to expose these sure to quickly appreciate treasures for what they are.

Applicable passage from the Hobby protection act -

The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with further requirements of these regulations.

Rereading the auction listing, I wonder if anyone here believes it complies with the spirit of the Act.

Ebay staff - since I'm sure you will be reviewing this thread, do the right thing. There are probably several hundred power sellers on this board who will watch with interest how you view this seller's listing and behavior. Remember, we frequently post links to good auctions here, as well as the bad ones.

Example of newbies being taken advantage of...edited to add something

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