New Set Composites. Who Decides???

robstar

A new hockey set was made available on the registry on Feb 20th.

The set is called the " ALL-TIME NHL TOP 50 ROOKIES " What does that mean? WHO DECIDES??
The set composition leaves something to be desired. While most of the pre-war and vintage selections are in line, there are obvious exclusions from the modern era. While players like PAUL COFFEY and CHRIS CHELIOS are included, the likes of STEVE YZERMAN and BRETT HULL are not.
There are currently no sets listed.

Let me first state that I realize that the registry is open for all and all should be free to collect whatever they like. With that said, I also feel that all SET REGISTRY COMPOSITES should be based on fact. I don't feel that a category based on ones OPINION should be accepted to the registry. There are similar sets like the NBA TOP 50 which I feel ARE acceptable because it was a publicly announced and celebrated event.

I also feel that Team sets, Player sets, 500 goal scorers, CY Young winners, MVP sets are all awesome ideas, they are all clearly based on fact.

Imagine someone submitting a composite like this for Baseball.
" ALL-TIME MLB TOP 50 ROOKIES " Who would decide? It's kind of pointless.

I had a look through most of the registry categories and could not find any other set like this.

While I feel it is important that the REGISTRY continues to grow, I feel that PSA needs to maintain a certain level of integrity while reviewing these new sets.

I would appreciate feedback on this. Maybe I am out of line. Perhaps I missed the NEWS release.



Rob...

goodriddance189

i dont like this set whatsoever, or any other sets based on personal preference as opposed factual statistics (ie 500 goals etc). here are the changes i would make:

Pre-War- pretty accurate except for one GLARING exception. how did they leave off one of the greatest hockey cards ever, the c55 Georges Vezina? i would make these changes: ADD 1911-12 c55 Vezina and the 1936-37 opc v304d Turk Broda. leave Max Bentley and Syl Apps off.

Post-War to 1970- replace the Red Kelly 51 parkhurst with the Delvecchio, replace the Dickie Moore with either Gump Worsley or Johnny Bower (Id say Bower), replace the Bill Durnan (I dont like "rookie cards" that werent issued during the players career) with any of a number of good players from the 60s- Dave Keon, Gerry Cheevers are the most glaring exceptions.

1970-1980- good list here, the only one I might take off is the Brad Park (I just dont consider him one of the top 50 of all time)

1980-Present- many omissions here. you have to put Brett Hull, Steve Yzerman, and Joe Sakic on here. maybe even Luc Robitaille (cant argue with 600 career goals). As for the newer players like Bure, Modano, etc its still too early to tell. even Jagr hasnt put up good enough career stats yet. any of the newer players could suffer a career threatening injury.

As for the "NHL" part of the moniker, it leaves many players out. mainly the Russians who either didnt play in the nhl, or didnt play until late in their careers. Im thinking Vladislav Tretiak, Slava Fetisov, and Dominik Hasek mainly. Even though Hasek should be in regardless- his career mirrors Drydens in length, and Ive personally never seen another goalie in their prime who was better. also, correct me if Im mistaken, but the NHL didnt technically form as the National Hockey League till the mid 20's or 30s. So technically many of the early players shouldnt be included.

This is just my opinion of course.

aro13

I made the request for the set and along with raym8 and yawie99 helped get the set on the registry. However, before you question the decision it should be noted that the list was taken from The Hockey News - The Top 50 NHL Players of all-time- the definitive list. Voting was done before the 1997 Stanley Cup finals by a panel of 50. The 50 players were chosen before the Hockey News 50th anniversary. A big deal was made of the list in the Toronto area. If you want a list of who made up the panel I would be happy to submit it to you. The exclusion of Yzerman is glaring and if it were to be done today he would be on the list. I do not agree with all of the picks, and certainly not the order but it was done with a fair process by significant people in the hockey industry. It is a comparable list as the top 50 basketball players of all-time.

goodriddance189

ok i assumed it was one of those "50 greatest of all time lists" that comes out every once in awhile. if it was made in 1997, i agree that Yzerman was the only glaring recent example. i wish psa would let all the hockey collectors (all 7 or 8 of us?) each submit a list then compare and contrast and make a decision as to who makes the cut. that would be nice. or keep the current list and make it where any card (not just the rookie) could count. with so many vintage cards on the list, it prices most people out of the market even if you try to put the set together in low grades

aro13

goodriddance189-I came up with the idea to request the set because I enjoy putting together the 50 greatest basketball players rookie cards and I wanted to come up with a way to collect significant hockey rookie cards other than just building sets by year. I agree there are many cards on the list that are very difficult to find in mid grade let alone high grade but I can say that I have seen every one of the cards on the list. The Shore V129 will be particularly tough although I do have my eye set on one that will probably grade PSA 2 or 3. Also, the Hockey Hall of Fame registry set allows you to put in any card of a Hall of Fame player and not just a rookie card.

As for the list itself, everybodys opinion will be different. A collecting friend of mine who is in his late 70's thought the list had too many "modern" players. Where are all the players from the 1930's he wondered? He also questioned the addition of Syl Apps and Max Bentley. However, the major problem with the voting list is that Stan Fischler was given a vote.

robstar

Albie.

Like I said at the end of my post. " Maybe I missed the PRESS RELEASE ".
I live in Toronto and don't recall this list being voted on and published.

Astonishing that even in 1997 Steve Yzerman would not make this list whereas Chelios would.
I am certainly not one of those Yzerman worshippers ( not that there's anything wrong with that ) but he is easily TOP 25 all-time based on stats, achievements and leadership qualities. Those are facts.
I am no fan of Brett Hulls either but he is now a member of the 700 Goal Club.

Since I have been posting on these boards I have always appreciated and respected the posts of my fellow hockey collectors. Especially you and Yawie99. If you guys are comfortable with that composite, Go for it.


Rob...

aro13

Rob-Ironically when I went to register my set yesterday I had my Steve Yzerman rookie card in my hand. I did not realize he was not on the list until today when you pointed him out. The hockey news published a book and a magazine to honour the top 50 players who were ranked in order and I think there was a TV show honouring the players. Gretzky was #1 although had Stan Fischler not been on the list of voters Orr would have won the vote. As it was Orr was #2 and Howe #3. Included on the panel were Al Arbour, Scotty Bowman, Don Cherry, John Davidson, Emile Francis, Harry Howell, Brian McFarlane, Howie Meeker, Roger Neilson, Sam Pollock, Glen Sather, Milt Schmidt, Harry Sinden etc.. When I requested the set I did request it as the The Hockey News top 50 players of all-time but it was changed.

The criteria for selection was "Rank the top players, regardless of position, in order of whom you consider to be the best in NHL history." I have the magazine in my hand but not the book. I know in the book they listed the next 50.

Yzerman19C

I have the book in front of me and it ticks me off everytime i read it.I should burn it . Its bad enough they have Yzerman ranked 78th, Hull ranked 64th. Its the fact they have Lindros ranked 54th never has a guy did so little and go so much recognition. Brian Leetch ranked 71st ahead of Yzerman doesnt really thrill me either.
I do however think the top 10 is close to what i would have for a top 10 > Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux, Richard, Harvey , Beliveau, Hull, Sawchuk, Shore.

Randy

robstar

Randy.

What took you so long. Can you believe this?


Rob...

Wabittwax

Actually the solution to this problem is to rename the set on the registry to read (so in so's) Top 50 Players of All Time. That way people would know where the list came from.

Yzerman19C

Rob

I actually have no problem with the top 50 as decided by the hockey news being listed on the registry(even if i dont agree with the player selection). Anytime it gives collectors such as RayM (who is working on something special) and others an opportunity to showcase their cards im all for it. I myself do not collect rookie cards so its not something i would work on but i look forward to seeing some of the great cards listed .

My real beef (which goes back to when the list came out) was stated above and for what its worth i feel Yzerman should fall somewhere between 23-30 on the list

yawie99

aro, do you know why psa dropped the THN from the title of the set? regardless of what we all think of the list or the voting process, psa should include THN in the title or at least acknowledge the source in a brief write-up - much like the description for the nba top fifty - as it would give the set a bit more legitimacy. as it is, it just kinda looks like another random list of somebody's favorites, as the initial posts on this thread suggest.

aro13

yawie99-On my original request it was listed as The Hockey News top 50 players of all-time. Somewhere in the communication between PSA, raym8 and myself the request might have been listed differently. I will contact PSA Monday or Tuesday to see if they will change it. I was just happy with the speed at which they put the set in the registry. There should be more hockey sets registered, maybe people can attempt to build a 500+ goal scorers rookie set, or a 700+ goal scorers rookie set, or a similar set regarding points and the year the player achieved his milestone etc..

yawie99

definitely! my quibble with the name aside, anything that leads to an increase in the number of available hockey sets and the number of participating collectors is a good thing.

by the way, i've been redoing my scans to include front and back images. i've seriously spent at least a dozen hours so far and i still need to finish about half of my '53-54 parkies and my modern hall of fame cards. psa updated my updates this morning, so at least half of my registry collection is again available for your viewing pleasure.