500 HR Set on the Registry?

missinglink

I am starting a collection that I think will be an incredible display of both the hobby of baseball card and the exclusive allure of the 500 HR in baseball.

I want to submit a set on the Registry for a 500 HR Club set that would include the rookie card of the current 17 biggest offensive players in baseball history! What do you think?

Here is a list of the 17 cards that would be included. A couple of them I need help on whether that should actually be the card on the list or if you have another suggestion.

Hank Aaron 1954 Topps #128
Babe Ruth 1915 Sporting News #151
Willie Mays 1951 Bowman #305
Frank Robinson 1957 Topps #35
Mark McGwire 1985 Topps #401
Harmon Killebrew 1955 Topps #124
Barry Bonds 1987 Fleer #604
Reggie Jackson 1969 Topps #260
Mike Schmidt 1973 Topps #615
Mickey Mantle 1951 Bowman #253
Jimmie Foxx Need help? Should it be 1932 U.S. Caramel #23 or either 1933 Goudey #129/#154
Ted Williams 1939 Play Ball #92
Willie McCovey 1960 Topps #316
Eddie Mathews 1952 Topps #407
Ernie Banks 1954 Topps #94
Mel Ott 1933 Goudey could be either #127 or #207
Eddie Murray 1978 Topps #36

Then of course the list will grow by 2 this year.

Sammy Sosa 1990 Leaf #220
Rafael Palmeiro 1987 Donruss #43 or Donruss Rookies #47


Please email me with help on how to weight this set. Email me with weighting help

Now before you guys blast me about how difficult this would be, let me be the first to say that I won't be looking for the Sultan of Swat, the Splendid Splinter, the Mick or the Say Hey Kid in PSA 8! I'm not looking to mortgage my entire future for the set, just looking to build an incredible collection that would span all decades of card collecting and be a memorial to the last 100+ years of the great game.

helionaut

Good list. You also will have to think about Fred McGriff and Junior Griffey, who are at 478 and 468 HRs, respectively, and so we could have a year where 4 men reach the mark. Griffey I think would be the 1989 UD, or, for greater difficulty, 1989 Bowman Tiffany. McGriff only has a 1986 Donruss, IIRC. Foxx also has a 1933 DeLong, but if there's a 1932 card, I'd go for that. Not that I could afford either one.

There could be a rookie set, and also a "whatever" set like the HOF set for those who couldn't come close to a rookie set. UD has that great bat card set of the 500 HR hitters, and that I think would be

There is a lot of territory for milestone sets. 3000 hits, 300 wins, Triple Crown Winners, etc. I've though about a "record-setters" set. Something like a 2001 Bonds, a 1998 McGwire, a 1961 Maris, and a 1921(?) Ruth, representing the year the season HR record was broken. The possiblilities are endless.

mikeschmidt

I think it is a great idea -- and a good list.

I guess my only point for further discussion is this: It seems like you concentrate on rookie cards, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. But the one exception is Babe Ruth.

Ruth, in 1915, was an absolutely amazing pitcher for the Boston Red Sox. Heck -- he won two World Series for them on the mound in 1916 and 1918. However -- he wasn't really as much an offensive force until he joined the Yankees (the horror!) and left the pitching role. I often wonder what his career would have been like as a pitcher....

At any rate, I am only suggesting that it perhaps may be more appropriate to include a Ruth card that begins when he is with the Yankees and no longer a pitcher. Perhaps the E121 American Caramel card? Just a thought from my vantage point -- not sure what anyone else thinks.

Great list, though!

Davalillo

Your list is fine. Use 1932 U.S. Caramel for Foxx and 1915 Sporting News for Ruth. Use SMR to determine player weightings.

Davalillo

more6

i guess we all better start stocking up on those 86 donruss mcgriffs...

he's next after sosa and palmeiro, it appears, unless griffey really turns it around this year.

Wabittwax

Great list but it sounds like another one of those sets that we watch all the "Marshall Fogel's" of the world fight over to see who can drop the most k's on the set while the rest of us normal people wish we could participate and have a chance of winning.

Davalillo

Wabbitwax,

Collectors like Marshall and Charlie probably have all these cards already and several others have most. This set as are most specialty sets are just opportunities to post what you already have not collect to compete in that category.

Davalillo

BBCI

Whoooaaa.

This is undoubtedly the weirdest thing I think I have ever seen. Over the last several months I have been building a request for this exact set (almost). The set I was going to propose is "500 HR Club - First Card". This first card idea removes any doubt about which is the true rookie/first card of the player. Also, there are multiple cards from that first year - so it will give folks a choice. The weights would also play a role here. Well here is my list. My only concern is that some of these are impossible to get (i.e., 1914 Ruth) and others I am not sure if PSA grades (e.g., 1927 W560). In that case, we would have to replace it with one of the cards "missinglink" came up with. This may also make it harder for the Marshall Fogels of the world...

Hank Aaron
(1) 1954 Topps #128
(2) 1954 Johnston Cookies 5

Babe Ruth
(1) 1914 Baltimore News
(2) 1915 Sporting News #151

Willie Mays
(1) 1951 Bowman #305

Barry Bonds
(1) 1986 Topps Traded Tiffany #11T
(2) 1986 Topps Traded #11T
(3) 1986 Fleer Update #U14
(4) 1986 Donruss Rookies #11
(5) 1986 Sportflics Rookies #13

Frank Robinson
(1) 1956 Kahn's Weiners

Mark McGwire
(1) 1982 Anchorage Glacier Pilots

Harmon Killebrew
(1) 1955 Topps #124
(2) 1955 Topps Doubleheader 111-112

Reggie Jackson
(1) 1969 Topps #260
(2) 1969 Topps Decals
(3) 1969 Topps Super 28
(4) 1969 Milton Bradley

Mike Schmidt
(1) 1972 Puerto Rican League Stickers #64

Mickey Mantle
(1) 1951 Bowman #253

Jimmie Foxx
(1) 1927 W560

Ted Williams
(1) 1939 Play Ball #92
(2) 1939 Goudey Premiums R303-A/B
(3) 1939 World Wide Gum V351-A

Willie McCovey
(1) 1960 Topps #316
(2) 1960 Nu-Card Hi-Lites #67

Ernie Banks
(1) 1954 Topps #94

Eddie Mathews
(1) 1952 Topps #407

Mel Ott
(1) 1929 Kashin Publications R316
(2) 1929 Major League Die-cuts

Eddie Murray
(1) 1978 Topps #36
(2) 1978 3-D Super Stars
(3) 1978 Kellogg's
(4) 1978 O-Pee-Chee

Sammy Sosa
(1) 1987 Gastonia Rangers #1789

Rafael Palmeiro
(1) 1986 Pittsfield Cubs

Fred McGriff
(1) 1985 Syracuse Chiefs #2

Ken Griffey
(1) 1987 Bellingham Mariners #15

Don....my e-mail is "baseballcardinvestments@yahoo.com" if anyone would like to coordinate on developing this set.

mikeschmidt

As much as I love my 1972 Puerto Rican League Stickers Mike Schmidt card -- I can tell you that many people would object to using minor league cards....

goodriddance189

The 1982 Anchorage Pilots Mcgwire was actually released in 1989. For some reason some of the psa holders say "1989 Team Issue" and some dont. McGwire's first cards are- 1985 Chong Modesto A's (both variations- correct spelling and "McGuire"), and the 1985 Topps rookie. In my opinion, I think most collectors would go for a players first major league card appearance (regional or mainstream) as opposed to a minor league card. Just my 2 cents.

AlanAllen

A few problems with that list, BBCI.

1) As we discovered when trying to build the NFL HOF RC set, you cannot have an "or" option for cards from different sets (the registry software does not allow it).

2) PSA does not grade strip cards like W560.

3) The "1982" McGwire was released in the late 1980's but dated 1982.

Joe

JeffVN

I suspect you'll have major objections to using minor league cards as your rookies for this set (unless you call it your Minor League Rookie Card 500 Home Run Set).

BBCI

Having dealt in modern cards for quite some time, I was really peeved when the minor league card craze hit in the late 1990's. But after a while, I was hooked too. Today, the first minor league issue of a player generally is their most desirable. In almost every case it is their most expensive card (particulary in gem mint condition) and it is the hardest to find. Would I rather have a 1990 Leaf Sosa where 500,000 were produced or a 1987 Gastonia Sosa where only 2-3,000 were produced? Lastly, most people who collect a particular player (e.g., Sosa, Palmeiro) will always go for the minor league card too. What do others think about minor league cards?

Joe - thanks for the info. Since Bonds has 5 cards produced in 1986 it will be tough to choose. How did you negotiate among fellow collectors the card to represent a players "rookie" year?

Don

helionaut

I'd have to go ahead and disagree with minor league cards being more desirable overall. Yes, there are almost always fewer minor league cards printed, and they are almost always years ahead of "true" RCs, but they are still minor league cards. Being first doesn't always make them the best; they are cool collectibles and they round out a player collection, but in terms of the list being discussed, I don't see them taking precedence over accepted RCs.

missinglink

BBCI,

I like that we are thinking in the same vein. However, don't take this the wrong way, but I am not interested at all in collecting the minor league cards. I feel that the reason there are only 2-3,000 cards produced is because the DEMAND isn't there.

I want to stick with the major league cards.

Secondly, almost everyone of the cards on my list are in Joe Orlando's book, "The Top 200 Sportscards in the Hobby". I feel that they will be desireable for a long time.

Virtualizard

How about submitting a "minor league/first card" set for the registry? I have a few of these early cards of players (all are "modern" cards though). There might be some interest in a set that is just minor league cards - Rickey Henderson ('79 Ogden A's), Don Mattingly ('81 Nashville Sounds), Mark McGwire ('85 Modesto A's Chong), Rafael Palmeiro ('86 Pittsfield Cubs), Sammy Sosa ('87 Gastonia Rangers), Ken Griffey Jr. ('87 Bellingham Mariners), Jason Giambi ('90 Alaska Goldpanners), Mike Piazza ('89 Salem Dodgers), etc.

I have not collected any cards that were produced after 1975 in the past year or so, but this could renew my interest in some newer cards (although they are more rare and less mass marketed). I would probably never even consider cards from about 1984 - present (professionally graded, at least) other than something like this.

Does anyone else have any interest in something like this? I really don't know much about these cards, but I'd be willing to do some research.

JEB.

AlanAllen

When there was more than one eligible RC, we chose the one whose SMR was higher for a PSA 8. There were still some cards we couldn't agree upon, and for those they ended up using the most "accesible" card. BTW, don't count on BJ or Joe picking a contested card for you, it seems like they want the board to find a consensus and have a spokesperson communicate decisions with them.

Joe

1420sports

I would love to complete a registered 500 HR Club set. With that list however, I would be lucky to have three of those cards in mid grade, and I would bet that many collectors feel the same way.

I am on the HOF Player set, and I wish that the cards registered would be cards issued during the playing career, and not a 95 Upper Deck Remember When or something along those lines.

How about a set that only certain issues for the player could be used? For Ruth, it would be 1915-1935 (possibly the 48 Leaf or 51 Connie Mack as well) and not a 1970 Rold Gold.

Ginving collectors a legitimate opportunity to complete such a set is what it is all about. The kingpins of the hobby will still be at the top, but the list they are on top of may be 20-30 collectors with realistic chances of 100% completion, instead of 5 or 6 collectors.

1420sports

Another way to go about sets of this nature would be to allow any card to be registered, but assign a grade weight to the card in correlation with the SMR value in PSA 8 form.

This way, a 1970 Rold Gold PSA 10 Ruth could be registered, but would not come close to getting a weight as high as a 1933 PSA 3 Ruth would.

Is it possible to set up a weight system such as this?

BillBob

1420sports, I like your idea very much, but it may be too hard for PSA to track. Another option is to use the card from the year the player hit his 500th homer although this may be difficult for the older cards. Just throwing out ideas.

BBCI

After hearing everyone's reaction to the minor league cards, I guess it would be best not to include them here. Having said that. I am working on another "First Cards" set which is much broader so for the few of you out there that are interested in the really rare cards, I am with you!! Anyway, here is another crack at the 500 HR Club list. Missinglink, granted many of those cards are listed in Joe's book, some are not even considered the rookie cards. Still others have another issue in the same year that are of higher value in PSA 8 (see Joe's comments). I have a few proposals here that we need some help on whether PSA grades them (e.g., 1956 Kahns). An e-mail to PSA went unanswered.

Hank Aaron
- 1954 Topps #128

Babe Ruth
- 1914 Baltimore News

Willie Mays
- 1951 Bowman #305

Barry Bonds
- 1986 Topps Traded Tiffany #11T

Frank Robinson
- 1956 Kahn's Weiners

Mark McGwire
- 1985 Topps Tiffany #401

Harmon Killebrew
- 1955 Topps #124

Reggie Jackson
- 1969 Topps #260

Mike Schmidt
- 1972 Puerto Rican League Stickers #64

Mickey Mantle
- 1951 Bowman #253

Jimmie Foxx
- 1930 Baguer Chocolate (but I think there is an earlier one)

Ted Williams
- 1939 Play Ball #92

Willie McCovey
- 1960 Topps #316

Ernie Banks
- 1954 Topps #94

Eddie Mathews
- 1952 Topps #407

Mel Ott
- 1929 Kashin Publications R316

Eddie Murray
- 1978 Topps #36

Sammy Sosa
- 1989 Donruss Baseball's Best #324

Rafael Palmeiro
- 1987 Topps Tiffany #634

Fred McGriff
- 1986 Donruss #28

Ken Griffey
- 1989 Bowman Tiffany #220

murcerfan

Aaron also had a rookie card in the regional issue by Johnston Cookies.
It actually depicts him before the famous #44 jeresey became his.

sixdart

PSA does not like to use cards out of the ordinary. They will base their opinion of a rookie on the PSA 8 value and it's ability to be collected.

The football collectors went through this issue regarding rookie classification over the 1951 Topps magic and 1950 Topps Feltback issues vs. the 1951 and 1952 Bowman sets. This was for the PSA Set Registry NFL HOF Rookie Players.

JeffVN

I am not in favor of using lnon-regular issue cards for a Players Rookie Card in a Set (Unless its a Player Rookie Card Set), like the 1989 Bowman Tiffany for Ken Griffey Jr. These cards have limited availability, which should not otherwise get in the way of their being used in a set, but when there is a regular Topps issue cards sitting there with 100 times the production, I think we should opt for the regular issue cards.

BBCI

So far it appears the reaction is mixed for this set. The minor leagues cards are definately out, but how about the other less mainstream cards?

Murcerfan brings up an interesting point. We could easily go for the 1954 Topps Aaron or try to be different and go for the Johnston Cookies card. If we picked mainstream cards like Missinglink originally proposed, I don't think it would be much fun and in the words of one collector ...the same folks would be atop the leader board. Why do we make registry sets in the first place? Most of the cards Missinglink proposed are part of other HOF, rookie, or player sets. All this set would do is reshuffle the deck a little bit and put a "500 HR Club" tag on it - same cards, same collectors on top of the leader board.

Sixdart also brings up a good issue: Who is really building these sets "us" or "PSA". Why the heck can't we demand to have a less mainstream card be included in the set? So not everybody can be 100% complete, isn't that what makes this fun?

Also, the first available Jimmy Foxx card that PSA grades (from what I can tell) is the "1928 R315 Portraits & Action" card.

crazysc

Remember, PSA is going to want to use cards that are actually OUT THERE and can be graded. I'd make the Ott and Foxx '33 Goudey, Schmidt & F Robinson the Topps RCs, and the Ruth either an M101 or a Goudey.