Why Did DHRC get a DCAM when I got a CAM?

itsnotjustme

I think one of us got a big break on the grading.

DHRC
INJM

smprfi

Looks that way.

littlewicher

I thought in order to get a DCAM, there could be no frost breaks....... And who said that there was no insider grading going on?

mbbiker

I don't know, but i do see that you made more money then he did

VonZipper

Yeah looks like some frost break. I wonder how many(calendar days) it took to get it graded.

BIGDAVE

Thats a no Brainer .. your name is not David Hall





FTC CHARGES COIN CERTIFICATION CO. MISREPRESENTS
OBJECTIVITY OF ITS COIN GRADING SERVICES;
COMPANY AGREES TO SETTLEMENT


The Federal Trade Commission has charged that Professional
Coin Grading Service, Inc. ("PCGS") misled consumers by falsely
claiming that it provides consistent, objective grading of coins
and that investment in PCGS-certified rare coins eliminates all
the risk associated with the grading of coins. Under a consent
decree filed August 16 in federal district court, PCGS is prohibit-
ed from making false representations about its objectivity, con-
sistency, or the liquidity of its coins, and from making deceptive
statements about the risks of investing in graded coins.

According to the FTC's Boston Regional Office, which handled
the investigation, PCGS was formed in August 1985 by seven promi-
nent rare coin dealers for the purpose of providing a consistent,
impartial, "certified" coin grading service upon which purchasers
and sellers of rare coins could depend. For a fee of approximately
$25 to $100 per coin, PCGS claimed that a coin would be impartially
and accurately graded by several of "the world's top grading
experts."

According to the complaint accompanying the consent decree,
PCGS falsely represented that its grading system is objective, con-
sistent, and unbiased; that an investment in PCGS coins eliminates
the risk associated with the grading of coins; that its coins can
be liquidated easily at reasonable, competitive prices; and that
it observes a "strict anti-self interest policy."

In fact, the complaint charges, PCGS has not provided object-
ive or consistent grading, and coin grading involves a certain
amount of subjectivity. Not all PCGS-certified coins can be li-
quidated easily at reasonable, competitive prices, according to
the complaint, and PCGS does not in all cases observe its "strict
anti-self interest policy." In addition, the complaint charges,
investment in PCGS-certified coins does not eliminate all the risk
associated with the grading of coins

Russ

<< <i>I thought in order to get a DCAM, there could be no frost breaks....... >>



This is a common misconception and is not a hard and fast rule. A minor frost break on a DCAM coin can be compensated for by other factors such as extraordinarily deep mirrors. Beyond the technical aspects of the designation, the overall "look" of the coin comes in to play when the grader is making the decision.

Internally, PCGS actually has seven levels of contrast, not just the three (none, CAM and DCAM) that we see on the holders.

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

I think the DH coin is toned, and the normal lighting used to photograph the coin makes it appear to have frost breaks.

Baldy

Didn't David say that to get a cam designation you had to have frost on all the devices and heavy frost
for the dcam.. He did say anything about hoe deep the mirrors were.

At least I think that is what was said to a question in the Q&A forum

Fred

LucyBop

<< <i>He did say anything about hoe deep the mirrors were. >>



Whether he did or didn't say anything, deep mirrors are essential for a DCAM. So far I am 100% on Franklin half submissions on coins I have considered DCAM, all of them had very deep mirrors.... Thats all the proof I need...

homerunhall

To Itsnotjustme,

DHRC does not submitt their coins to PCGS for grading. Any coin they have...CAM, DCAM, or anything else...they purchased on the open market already in a PCGS holder.

To Big Dave,

It's interesting that you posted the original FTC complaint. Why don't you post the results of the subsequent lengthy FTC investigation? We had an FTC staffer on premises for weeks during 1990 scouring our submissions and records. Why don't you tell everyone what they found to be the truth of the matter?

David Hall

Russ

Fred,

A coin can have the frostiest devices on the planet, but if it has no mirror depth, it won't go DCAM. The depth of the mirrors is a very important factor in the Deep Cameo designation; less so in the Cameo designation.

Russ, NCNE

BIGDAVE

homerunhall..

Under the terms of the consent decree, PCGS is subject to num-
erous prohibitions and requirements. PCGS is prohibited from mis-
representing that its grading is objective, consistent or unbiased,
or that an investment in PCGS-certified coins eliminates all risks
associated with the grading of coins. PCGS is also prohibited from
misrepresenting that PCGS-certified coins are liquid at reasonable,
competitive prices.

In addition, for a period of two years, PCGS must disclose in
all of its advertising and promotional material that "Certification
by PCGS does not guarantee protection against the normal risks
associated with potentially volatile markets." The decree further
requires that any claims about the safety or security of an invest-
ment in PCGS-certified coins be accompanied by a clear and conspic-
uous disclosure that the rare coin market is highly speculative and
subject to risk. PCGS must also clarify its liquidity claims with
a disclosure that the degree of liquidity, and the availability of
markets for certain coins, will vary from time to time.

The complaint and consent decree were filed in the U.S. Dis-
trict Court for the District of Columbia.

Professional Coin Grading Service, Inc. is based in Santa Ana,
Calif.

A consent decree is for settlement purposes only and does not
constitute admission of a law violation. Consent decrees have the
force of law.

Copies of the complaint and consent decree are available from
the FTC's Public Reference Branch, Room 130, 6th St. and Pennsyl-
vania Ave. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580; 202-326-2222; TTY 202-
326-2502.

# # #

MEDIA CONTACT: Office of Public Affairs, 202-326-2180

STAFF CONTACT: Phoebe D. Morse, Boston Regional Office,
617-565-7240


(Civil Action No. 90-1982)


(PCGS)

LucyBop

Well, my name is not David Hall and I have made my share of DCAMs....

Lakesammman

If photos could be graded, it would sure be easier to submit to PCGS, wouldn't it?? Think of all the postage expense saved.

mdwoods

I can only say that I have been very pleased with the grading I get from PCGS. And I have found the more critical I am when submitting coins, the more higher grades I get back. Yes, I get the occasional lower grade, but, upon reviewing the coin, the error is almost always mine. And I have been successful submitting coins for upgrade too. Not every coin, and not always the coins I really wanted, but the system seems to work pretty well for me. Grading is still an art, and good art is always controversial. Nothing wrong with that. mdwoods

itsnotjustme

Homerunhall,
Thanks for the reply. Would you care to comment on whether or not the DCAM designated coin deserves the DCAM designation?

DHeath

Agreed Mark. As my grading skills have improved, so has my opinion of PCGS grading. Are they always right? No. But they are quite skilled, ALMOST always correct, and guarantee their misgrades. Having said that, the very nature of the system is that the holder grade represents the minimum grade PCGS believes the coin deserves. The guarantee is that the coin won't grade less than X, not that it won't upgrade.