1959(p) Nickel (PCGS-MS65FS): CU Guide: $1000
wondercoin
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I got a call from Larry Abbott today over at Heritage. Bottom line is a consignor or seller wanted to pull the entire consignment or coin package away from Heritage over a 1959(p) Jefferson Nickel in PCGS-MS65FS. I assume Larry offered $50-$75 for the coin, OR 5 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR OF CU PRICE GUIDE. The seller was outraged citing the CU Price Guide and pointing out that many coins have commanded well over guide - expecting the coin might be closer to a $2,000 coin. Larry called me to ask me if I thought his offer was unfair.
My last sale off my website was at around $55 for this coin. Perhaps I sold it a couple dollars too cheap - $75-$100 makes sense for this pop 60 coin. So, why is this coin listed in the Guide today at $1,000 in MS65FS? Surely, DHRC was never asking $1000 for the pop 60 coin?
IMHO - Grossly overstated or understated prices in a respected price guide are dangerous. Here is a perfect example. I hope CU will devote the manpower necessary to maintain an accurate price guide. This price, IMHO, is way out in left field. I also took the time to point out a couple of other grossly understated prices a while back, but those coin prices were never changed in the guide either. Is the "ball dropping somewhere"? As always, my comments are designed to try to make the grading companies/parent company better than they even are
Wondercoin
My last sale off my website was at around $55 for this coin. Perhaps I sold it a couple dollars too cheap - $75-$100 makes sense for this pop 60 coin. So, why is this coin listed in the Guide today at $1,000 in MS65FS? Surely, DHRC was never asking $1000 for the pop 60 coin?
IMHO - Grossly overstated or understated prices in a respected price guide are dangerous. Here is a perfect example. I hope CU will devote the manpower necessary to maintain an accurate price guide. This price, IMHO, is way out in left field. I also took the time to point out a couple of other grossly understated prices a while back, but those coin prices were never changed in the guide either. Is the "ball dropping somewhere"? As always, my comments are designed to try to make the grading companies/parent company better than they even are
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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Seriously, the price guide is rife with inaccuracies, and the guide is probably the highest of any of the available guides. I haven't looked at Coin World's new modern price guide to see where they are at, but PCGS is consistently higher for coins where Greysheet, Bluesheet, and Trends pricing exists. I recently looked at the prices for MS-69 modern commems and saw that the guide lists the coins at usually multiples of E-Bay or Tulving prices for most issues.
Of course, with the modern market, it is extremely difficult to price the highest grade pieces as many of these trade hands privately and dealers do not want to reveal the prices that they sold the pieces for. Because of that, you kind of have to rely on Teletrade history or E-Bay history and hope that similar coins have sold recently.
Keith: So, what is Teletade history on a 1959(p) nickel in PCGS-MS5FS - anywhere close to $1000?
Actually, I just looked for sales over past few years on Teletrade. Taking away the lowest sales around $40 and one silly sale at $525, the last sale was $140 and that sounds "in the ballpark". Wondercoin
You make an excellent point. Many guides are so far off for moderns that they are doing a disservice. Trends new modern pricing is an example. I don't know all modern series, but I do know IKEs. Their pricing is so poor that it makes you want to cry. Where did they get their prices? Here are some examples:
1971 in 66 $650. I'm a $2,000 sight unseen bid.
1971D in 67 $350. Did they forget a zero?
1972D in 67 for $650. Geez, I'll pay $3,500 and not get one.
73 or 74 in 67. $350. Huh? Zero pops so far. First one graded has to go for $10,000.
Yet, the 78 in MS67 is priced at $4,350. How did they get close on that one?
What data could they possibly be looking at?
CU is little better. They have a 72 IKE in 66 at $1,800. Geez I sold mine for $9,500. Anyone have one for sale at double CU, say $3,600.
These guides have to get better, or should be deleted.
Greg
$33
$45
$45 for two.
$525 - HUH?
$140.
Russ, NCNE
Also, as Greg points out, often the prices are way too low, so folks (like this collector with a 1959(p) nickel) might really believe if the guide says $1000 on this nickel that $2000 is a fair asking price. An offer of $50 is seen as nearly a "Crime" when it is $5 beneath my last offering price
Definitely not a thousand dollar coin. $75 sounds bout right. Where's Frank? He can put this to rest.
when pops were much lower than they are now!
I like the one I bought, but 'probably' paid too much for it. It only has light contact marks under magnification and has only slight gold toning.
It has strong steps (5 1/4 ).
I paid because it was nice for a 65, and there aren't too many 66's. The 1959 date is not in high demand. The pictures of others I've seen, have
not been better, or even close.
I'd like to see the coin in question. The consignor is not in touch with reality. Anyone who uses the price guides (as gospel), doesn't know what they are doing.
And as others have indicated, some people pay way too much. Some of us just pay premium!
BOSTON BOB
to sell my entire set for twice what I paid. Haven't bought much in the last
year, so there has been time for some appreciation in value there, including
a few insane bargains like the 41-S in MS66FS pop 12/1 purchased 2-1/2 years
ago for the measly sum of $37.76, and the gorgeous 50-D shown in my icon!
Serious inquiries only, please
Ken
Here's one I had a similar issue with: 1954 Jefferson PCGS MS 65 (not FS). CU Price guide lists it at $500. There are several Teletrade sales at $9 range with a couple of outliers at $6, $12 and $21! So, real price is probably somewhere between 1 and 2 cents on the dollar.
Sometimes I wonder what they're smoking and where I can get some.
WH
Unfortunately, this also fuels the (erroneous) argument that all modern coin prices are crashing. Consider the collector who buys the 1954(P) nickel in MS65 "smartly" at 50% of Guide ($250) and then sells it off at $10 the following year, claiming the modern market crashed 96% in a year!
Incidently, I just received a PM informing me the pricing on the 1959(p) nickel in MS65FS has already been adjusted and will be reflected as such shortly.
I'm glad there was finally a reaction and a change made. A lot of these discrepancies get posted here. How about a CU point person we can PM or e-mail with out-of-line prices. Granted it is primarily PCGS's job to keep them accurate but the job would be a lot easier if there was a way we could point out these issues and actually have some one look into it.
Maybe they'll get the 1954 too.
One step at a time.
WH
Greg
<< <i>CU just adjusted the price of the 1959(p) nickel to $125 from $1000. Good job CU! Even better news- CU put John Rothans in charge of overseeing the Guide. Expect good things from JR!
Mitch- Here's an example of how mis-information can hurt the collecting public. This seller hasn't got the word yet the price has been adjusted DOWN and NOT up! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3008208320&category=11955
Pat: Well - this collector almost had it right
Hey, anyone reoprting on moderns could just as easily write:
Jefferson Nickels crash 87% this week in light of possible clash with Iraq
Wondercoin