Cleaning up American Coinage

braddick

Is it time for for Congress to pass legislation allowing the removal of one or more of the following:

E. PLURIBUS UNUM

IN GOD WE TRUST

UNITED STATED OF AMERICA

(DATE)

LIBERTY

Dropping one or more of these would free up more design room on the coin and would give it a cleaner, more aesthetic look.
(I'm not even recommending we drop "In God We Trust" for religious or non-religion reasons. The point would be to free up our coins for better design presentation.)

I think in the next couple of years we're going to see even a stronger push for redesigning and revamping our coinage and maybe now is the time to also allow future designs to be unencombered in appearance, much like our very early coinage.

MadMarty

I think we should get rid of the Lincoln cent all together, and the one dollar bill. Then we can think about re-designing the current coinage...

DHeath

Pat, "In God We Trust" was removed once briefly, and unsucessfully. It'll never happen. I think we're headed toward brass tokens with only the denomination anyway.

braddick

When was "In God We Trust" ever removed and then added back? I wasn't aware of that.
I know the 2c coin of 1864 was the first to encorporate this motto (outside of Patterns), and it wasn't used on our currency until the 50's (I think- someone correct me on that-), but I was unaware it had ever been taken away unsuccessfully and then added back.

(Out of all of the design elements, that is the first I'd pick to REMAIN. Well, that and the Date.)

nwcs

Well, USA will always be on the coins. Now, they could probably use USA to the same effect, though. But most countries seem to use the full native name of the nation. Beyond that, there is an irrational attachment to the design elements on the coins. People don't like change and you'd hear loud vociferous challenges to any of the others being taken off even if 0.00001% of non-numismatists could explain what E Pluribus Unum means!

What can be done, also unsuccessfully, is changing the dimensions and composition of coins again. Like larger aluminum coins or bimetallics.

Neil

tjkillian

Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove "I God We Trust" in 1908 on gold coins. The public was not happy and it was restored later in the year.

Tom

DHeath

Thanks Tom. Exactly right. The 1908 no motto.

prooflike

The Buffalo nickel does not have In God We Trust... hmm.... it can be done!

EVillageProwler

I like all 5, and feel they should stay. Perhaps E PLURIBUS UNUM and IN GOD WE TRUST can be made small, as well as the date. Perhaps we can bring back edge lettering...

In any case, I would not like to see any of the 5 go away.

This country was founded on a very difficult concept known as democracy. By far, I feel that this country has the most complicated form of democracy of all the existing democratic nations.

The vast majority of the people of this country believe in a diety of some sort, even those who are generally irreligious. Yet, we don't want to force our religion upon others. We embrace the concept of liberty. Moreover, we embrace the simple fact that we are the most diverse nation on the planet, and it is through this diversity that makes us even stronger.

Emotionally, the date is the least relevent to me. But, as a collector, it is important...

EVP

keithdagen

Looking at a cent right now, notice that the words ONE CENT take up almost 50% of the reverse -- make that smaller.

Looking at a five cent piece right now, remove the word MONTICELLO, and for that matter, remove Monticello -- if you have to identify the landmark, it isn't worthy of being on the coin.

Looking at a ten cent piece right now, make LIBERTY smaller, as well as ONE DIME.

Don't have anything bigger than those on me right now.

I would hate to have to give up any of those ideas as represented on our coinage. I think EVP summed it up well. Don't design coins with less, design them smarter.

flaminio

Of the five items Braddick mentioned, the only one that I would be in favor of removing is IGWT. This motto has always struck me as insulting, for religious and nonreligious folk alike. TR had the right idea to get rid of it, but I fear that if even a man of his presence couldn't get it done, no one can.

To further "clean up" American coinage, new designs should be put forth for all circulating coinage. If I were King o' da Mint, I'd use Native American portraits for each denomination: 5c, 10c, 25c. And whaddya know, the $1 coin is already done!

Furthermore, denominations should be expressed numerically -- 5c (not "Five Cents"), 10c (not "One Dime"), 25c (not "Quarter Dollar"). I would change the nickel in 2005, the dime in 2007, and the quarter in 2009 (the SQ program must be allowed to finish, after all).

The JFK half dollar should be eliminated. In its place, a "circulating" 50 cent commemorative should be issued every year. ("Circulating" in quotes, because it wouldn't really circulate, just as the existing half doesn't circulate.)

The one cent coin should continue until 2008. 2009 should feature a special commemorative Lincoln cent, made of all copper and the size of a large cent. And then no more cents.

The $1 and $2 FRNs should be discontinued. Immediately. Dollar coin production should be allowed to increase to meet demand. A circulating $2 coin should be investigated -- something bimetallic like Canada's twonie would be nice, about halfway in size between a Sackie and a half dollar.

That's what I would do.

airplanenut

"NEVER CLEAN A COIN!"... that is the first thing about coins you should have learned!

gmarguli

Come on people, we are going to have to remove most of the designs on all our coins. Soon enough we will have a law that requires the denomination to be written in all 248 languages spoken in this country.

I'd get rid of EPU. I know what it means, but who cares. It's also latin which is a dead language.

IGWT needs to be removed. For a country that isn't supposed to promote a specific religion, it is promoting the existance of god which goes against the beliefs of many. There is also no need for this on a coin.

I'd like to see United States of America reduced to USA for some coins. It would look interesting. Perhaps on a special mint coin (i.e. State Quarters).

The date needs to be kept. Otherwise the mint wouldn't be able to sell rolls of pocket change every year to the masses for 1.5X face.

Steve27

Be careful what you wish for, after removing all those words people will want to sell the space for advertising. You'll end up having coins which say "Drink Coke."

Nap

I think having USA and date are necessary or at least proper. The other three have appeared on our coins for so long, but just because of that I don't think they have a right to have a permanent place to reside on the face of our coinage. I would really not mind seeing either of those being eliminated.

Liberty first appeared on coins displaying an image of Lady Liberty herself, I believe. Our coins nowadays for the most part are showing historical figures. I think "Liberty" should be left off any coin not presenting the artistic vision of Liberty herself.

"In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum" are mainstays on our coinage for so long that to remove them would appear to go against the historical precedent created so long ago. There are other things to consider though. The act of Congress in 1865 concerning "In God We Trust" on our coinage said that "... in addition to the devices and legends upon the gold, silver, and other coins of the United States, it shall be lawful for the director of the mint, with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, to cause the motto "In God We Trust" to be placed on such coins hereafter to be issued as shall admit of such legend thereon." The second part of the legislation occurred in 1908 and made the appearance of "In God We Trust" mandatory on all coins that previously carried it. This meant that quarters, half dollars, silver dollars, half eagles, eagles, and double eagles would have to carry it, while cents, nickels, dimes, and quarter eagles would not. Thus the buffalo nickel. But all of the other denominations chose to carry it eventually. As far as I know, that law has not been overturned. The motto could be dropped on the lower denominations but I doubt that would happen.

Though it has appeared on coinage since 1795, "E Pluribus Unum" is no longer the official motto of the United States. The motto was changed during the 50's to "In God We Trust" but the Latin phrase has continued to remain on coins. I do not believe its residence there to be mandatory; three dollar coins as well as the coronet type quarter eagle did not have it. If anything, this is probably the only thing that would be possible to remove, and I could be wrong about that. But I could live without it.. though it has a nice ring to it and its semi-cryptic translation makes us feel better about our unity, it should be remembered that the phrase originated in an ancient text regarding the making of a salad.

PTVETTER

Keep all of them,
They all have meaning and a history longer than our lives.

They are all important to true Americian's

When you forget your past your future looks dim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOD BLESS ALL OF US, FOR WE ALL NEED BLESSINGS

Steve27

Why is it that we all accept change as a part of our daily lives, yet everone hates change?

MacCoin

ok E. PLURIBUS UNUM is out of there. you don't make God mad by not trusting him. the good old USA should stay. the date get real how would I know what year it was minted. Liberty I can live with or without it. 2 out of 5 should give you a little room for something besides a dead presidents.

Conder101

<< <i>The second part of the legislation occurred in 1908 and made the appearance of "In God We Trust" mandatory on all coins that previously carried it. This meant that quarters, half dollars, silver dollars, half eagles, eagles, and double eagles would have to carry it, while cents, nickels, dimes, and quarter eagles would not. Thus the buffalo nickel. >>



Missed it! IGWT appeared on the nickel from 1866 to 1883 so under that law it DID have to appear on the Buffalo Nickel.

Personally I think IGWT should go. It is the youngest of the five dating from almost 70 years after the others. The date and United States of America are not going to be dropped. Liberty as a stated reason for the creation of our nation has a very strong tie to our history. E Pluribus Unum represents the uniting of many seperate elements into a unified whole that protects the rights of all, whether it be the original colonies in the 1790's, the immigrants of many nations in the nineteenth century, and the different cultures and races in the twentieth century. It represented the amazing bonding strenths of our country, the great "melting pot" that took the raw material of the world a forged them into AMERICANS! One people created from the many. One of the weakness of our country today is that we have forgotten the lessons of E Pluribus Unum. We have reversed it and have strived to celebrate out differences and to seperate ourselves into a more and more fragmented body.

I have other argument against IGWT but I will not state them here as most people can only approach the subject for an emotional standpoint and no one can effectively debate a topic based on emotion.

satootoko

The only way you will get dollar coins to circulate is to do what Canada did - stop printing paper dollars. The law authorizing the Sac dollars expressly forbids that, so - - -

BSqr

an interesting thread

looks like God and E Pluribus Unum are receiving the most votes for elimination

seems to me God was a significant factor in the establishment and growth of America so our deference to Him should stay
E Pluribus Unum could be changed to the more accurate E Pluribus Pluribus - Unity, not diversity, is strength

I say the answer braddick's question is a resounding 'No'

jom

The only thing we should getting rid of on our coins are dead presidents and dullard designs (one probably causes the other).

jom

Nap

<< <i>Missed it! IGWT appeared on the nickel from 1866 to 1883 so under that law it DID have to appear on the Buffalo Nickel. >>



You are quite right! I totally forgot about the shield nickels.

Now I am perplexed how the Buffalo nickel was able to avoid following that legislation, though most likely I misunderstood the effects of the law. Anyway, the main result of it was to restore IGWT on the eagle and double eagle, and ensure its protection on most coinage.

I'd also like to see "In God We Trust" taken off coinage but I think that would actually be the hardest one to remove due to everyone's passionate feelings about such context and protective legislation.

Libertad

I'd vote to remove EPU, and IGWT, shorten to USA, and add the colonial motto 'Don't Tread on Me', which could be shortened through numismatic committee to "I Bite" to leave design space.

Keep the date and mm. Use the edge for something useful and informative. Maybe a Safety message?

GDJMSP

As Project Coordinator of a campaign to have US coinage redesigned - I find it hard not to respond to this post. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course - but to my way of thinking there is nothing written on our coins that I think should be removed.

United States of America - kind of hard not to have our nations name on our coins.

Date - without it - nothing much for us to collect anymore.

Liberty - since the time this nation was founded Liberty has been on our coins. It was since the very beginning the primary reason for this nations existence and was madated to be placed on our coins. It should always be so to remind us of that.

E Pluribus Unum - one of the TWO offical mottoes. This has never been changed.

In God We Trust - The most controversial issue - and perhaps one of the most misunderstood. Some say the motto is not linked deep in our heritage - that it is more recent addition. I would not agree with that. There were 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 – the very beginning of our nation. This is the pledge that those 56 men made – "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." It seems rather hard to argue that “In God We Trust” and “firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence” do not convey the same meaning. And how much further back can you go into our nation’s heritage than the signing of the Declaration of Independence?

Then of course you can examine our National Anthem – written in 1814. The words of the third from the last line of the fourth stanza are - "And this is our motto - 'In God is our Trust!” Now somebody will say those words are not in our National Anthem. But “The Star Spangled Banner” is actually a poem that was put to music. And only the first stanza of the poem was used in the song.

So it seems to me that when Congress decided to place the Motto “In God We Trust” on some of our coins back in the 1860’s – they were only too aware of just how much those words are a part of our nation’s heritage. Perhaps we have forgotten it.

ponzi187

I personally don't like In God We Trust printed on the dollar bills I stuff in a dancer's shorts...

cladking

Coins don't need to be cluttered up with lots of slogans to be useful or aestetically pleasing.
Get rid of all of it. The only thing which really need be on a US coin is LIBERTY, it says it all.
Make a coin which is uniquely American and everyone will recognize it without USA spelled out.
Size tells one it's denomination. The date can go on the edge. And the rest is usually under-
stood. Anything with a political block to support it can go on the edge also.

There are some really attractive coins without lots of distracting words and mottos. Coins like the
1890's 1 Shilling South African coins are really quite impressive and say a lot by not having num-
erous mottoes.

This is a separate issue to coinage redesign to the extent that coinage can be updated and mod-
ernized with or without limiting the wording on them. It is time for the coinage to more accurately
reflect the spirit of the times.