What has happened to the market for '69 Topps Baseball ...

Virtualizard

... This is one of the sets that I collect, but not aggressively. I come across cards every once in a while, but I don't regularly search for them on ebay. I may have to rethink that. Today I won This Auction for 47% of SMR. All 3 cards are of HOFers. On the selling side, I've also had bad luck recently with this set. I can't even give away (i.e. no bids) PSA 8 commons when I list them.

Any thoughts?

By the way, I already have the #572 Giants Heroes - I just wanted the other two cards. If anyone's interested, I'll sell it for $30 - shipping included (SMR is $40).

JEB.

toppsgun

Link doesn't work. But I don't need to see it to tell you the market it dead for 1969 topps. I sold my set a few months ago before the crash. Less than 5% graded, the other 95% NM to NM+. Price realized was in excess of 110% of book. It's time to run for the hills on that one. A lot of the big guns on that set are either taking a sabbatical, have sold their set and/or are so far along, it's not competitive any more. Other years have drawn more interest. Quick, sell and move on. (I'm serious.)

dude

Actually, here's the problem. You won a 3 card lot: Ted Shows How, Brooks Robinson, and Giant Heroes - all PSA 8. The pop on those is 132, 387 and 125 respectively. Huge numbers. It also didn't help the seller that he sold all three together which probably turned away a few people that had at least one of those cards. I think the '69 set is still a good set to build. The first 50% is easy, the next 25% gets tough and the last 25% separates the men from the boys. You won't get the same SMR discount if you were bidding on Hank Aaron, Willie Mays or Bob Gibson or a number of other players in the tougher print runs of that set.

Virtualizard

Dan,

I realize that. But I've won several other auctions recently for low pop commons in PSA 8 for $10-$15. Why is this set so different from the others that I'm working on (specifically '60 and '70 - there's a lot of competition here). There are 53 sets currently listed on the '69 Basic Set Registry and 46 of them are less than 50% complete. You can't tell me that a dozen or so of those registered sets aren't lacking all 3 of those cards (By the way, I didn't check each one - maybe I'm wrong). Even considering high populations, the '70 HOFers generally sell for near SMR in PSA 8. I just don't understand the lack of interest in this set recently.

JEB.

RayBShotz

JEB- Just a note. I will agree that $64.00 is very low for this 3 card HOF lot; Dan is right. Get to 75% and it is a lot more difficult to win cards on ebay in this set.
I still need the elusive #110 Mike Shannon so I thought I would take a shot last night at a PSA 7 nicely centered. I bid $32 and went to bed figuring that should have a decent shot at being enough. I woke up to find out that this card went for $58; a PSA 7!

69' Topps is one weird set when it comes to the distribution of quality available cards. There are probably 150 cards so easy to acquire in 8 grade it can often make the seller cry what some of these go for. (#7 Ldrs, #11 Ldrs, Nye, Dark, McBean, Fryman and many others). On the flip side; stars and commons alike there are probably just as many really tough ones that often leave SMR in the dust. (Shannon, Ferraro, McDaniels, Satriano as well as Yaz, Brock, Gibson.) Track back and see what the few quality Yaz cards went for lately.

When I win a PSA 8 common I need these days in the $14-$17 range I am a happy camper. I is indeed tough sledding when you get 75% of the way up the hill.

RayB69Topps
aja4rayb@msn.com if you have any of those $14-$17 commons I need to complete.

dude

Virtualizard,

I do know most of the 69 collectors, and some including myself haven't been active lately, but haven't quit either. A lot of the serious collectors including myself go after 9's and will only go for 8's when no 9's can be found over a long period of time. It is a strange set, but I wouldn't let the behavior of other collectors bother you. If you are getting cards at a great price, then all the better.

gemint

For my particular case, I've let up a bit of late as far as bidding goes because I've managed to get to 100% with all PSA 7 or better. Though I intend to upgrade all the 7's to 8's, I'm being a bit more frugal in what I'll spend. I shelled out some decent cash for the Shannon, Satriano, Duncan and a few other upgrades to clear out the <PSA 7's in my set and to pick up some of the true rarities in PSA 8. But I'm less willing to spend multiple x SMR for a non-scarce common to bump it from a PSA 7 to a PSA 8. Most of the 8's I still need are relatively easy to obtain and therefore, I'm patiently waiting for them to hit eBay with a reasonable minimum bid. I'll need to shell out some decent cash for the Ferraro and Raditz but the others should be $10-$20 cards.

I don't think the market is crashing for '69s. Like others have stated, it all depends on the card. We just went through a few months of record prices for '69 commons. I see some more low pop commons coming up and we should continue to see strong prices as those auctions close.

Stump

Jeb

The cards you won although below smr are very easy to acquire.The tough ones come when you get past 75%. I just added the Ferraro in 8 and had to pay a pretty penny for it. I am now just under 85% and the cards are getting way tough in eight or better. When one does come up the competition is tough. The Mcdaniel has been on ebay for just a few days and is already over 100.00. The Shannon was put on Saturday and is also over 100.00. These so called commons are not so common. The last 15% of this set is a nightmare in 8 or better. 53 sets on the registry and alot of these commons pops are under 5. Strange set it is. Lots of road blocks. May be the only set where the Yaz sells for more than the Rose.

Dave

gaspipe26

I know why the 1969's are going cheaper! That crazy price inflator GASPIPE isnt bidding on most of the lots at this moment, although he just might.
Actually I've been biddibg on the tough ones. They'll always be good. I'm gonna get another Shannon in 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

acowa

Bob,

Very estute observation...if there aren't two good dancers doing the tango...the dance can get pretty ugly for the seller.


Regards,


Alan

Caramels

<< <i>Virtualizard,

I do know most of the 69 collectors, and some including myself haven't been active lately, but haven't quit either.





Dude! SSSSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssssssssssssssHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Quite! Apollo os watching & listening in Heaven!

Virtualizard

Thanks for all of the input everyone.

I guess I need to look at the POP report a little more, but I still can't believe that the 50+ collectors of this set currently on the registry (plus the new ones lurking out there) have no interest in these cards. I have 4000+ raw '69s that I have to go through for submissions to PSA (by the way - I already checked my Shannons - 2 have minor creases and the best would grade PSA 6 at best ). I have held off on my submissions recently because of the great deals that I've gotten at not a lot more than grading fees alone. It has kind of made me lazy - just hand pickin' them off of ebay.

I think my next submission will be my collection of variations from this set.

If anyone has any more '69 knowledge to give, please post. Thanks.

JEB.

TWINRON

DUDE
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO COLLECT THE 1969 TOPPS. ONLY IF YOU ENJOY PUTTING A PUZZLE TOGETHER WITH BROKEN PIECES THAT ALL LOOK ALIKE. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TRADE 2 OR 3 PSA8's OR PSA9's FOR 1 CARD THAT COULD BENEFIT MY SET. RON

ejguru

How timely is this? Posted some PSA 8's Sunday night of relatively low pops--#3 Leader, 125 Sadecki, 158 Gibbon, 214 Checklist, 251 Herbel, 645 Brunet, and 659 Podres. Also put up #416 McCovey AS in PSA 7. See seller ejguru@aol.com. Good luck to you registry set builders who need 'em!

EJ

Mitochondria

The 1969 set is a wonderful and challenging set to collect. Several collectors have already pointed out the effect of a high population number and the rarity of several of the common players in high grade. The current performance of the Shannon, McDaniel and Ferraro in PSA 8 is a testiment to the expertise of the 1969 collectors. In addition, trying to collect the set with cards that have minimal "diamond cuts" is difficult since this alteration is not usually "qualified" by PSA. The Leaders in the 1969 set registry have quite impressive collections if one understands the difficulty of finding every card in PSA 8 or better.

By far the cornerstone to the set is the Jackson rookie, Mantle's last card and the second year Ryan. While finding any of these cards in PSA 8 is achieveable, the challenge is finding them with strong centering. I believe this explains in part why some Jacksons, Mantles and Ryans sell well while others sit and linger in inventories despite being on so many wantlists. For me, the challenge of finding these cards in great shape keeps me going as well as several other stars I need. This journey will take me an additional 7 years at least and I'll enjoy every minute of it regardless of where the public demand for the set happens to be by then!

Ron

Stump

Ron

I applaud you

Dave Jacobs

Mitochondria

Dave,

We have never met, but I want to compliment you on your ascent to the elite 5 in the 1969 set. You added a great card in the PSA 8 Mike Ferraro. The Roy White and Don Cardwell in PSA 8 are not too shabby either. Furthermore, your position in the 3rd series and 7th series is pretty solid. I hope we have an opportunity to meet at the national this year. My goal will be to complete the 7th series.

Sincerely,

Ron

Virtualizard

Ron & Dave,

Great sets. You've both done a great job.

Dave,

Why don't you have your set listed under the master set registry? Do you not collect the variations? I have mine listed on both, although I currently don't have any of the variations listed - I have about 20 or so ungraded and just haven't sent them in for grading yet. Do the PSA graded variations come up on ebay very often. I know there were a lot in the last Superior auction (gaspipe's I believe?) - I bid on them all, but didn't get any.

Ron,

You better watch out - pretty soon I'll be screaming past your #32 Triple A Set on the registry. Why do you have so many sets listed? Don't you sell/trade your cards that have been upgraded? I just wondered.


Thanks again for all of the great insight. Keep it coming - you rarely see a good thread on this set here.

JEB.

Stump

Ron

Thanks for the kind words. I have been pretty lucky on the 69's. I have a source in New York that has been pretty amazing. I got the Clarke 87 in 8 for 18.00 from him not to mention many other low pops. I just got the Clarke in 9 so I will be upgrading this card. I believe it is a 1 of 1. It was the last time I checked. I also got the 239,292,521 in nine which are also very low pops. I am 99% sure I will be at the National I am trying to work it out now and will know in a couple weeks. I had a great time in Chicago and put a very large dent in my 68's there. I bought many 8's and 9's along with alot of raw that graded high. If I go I will post it on the board and try to meet alot the guys who are on the registry. I believe we are a unique group.

Jeb

I have thought about the master set and will most certainly list my set on there. I was trying to get a grip on the White Letter variations and now feel I know a little about them. Not alot but enough to be dangerous. So you will see me soon. I also am going to start to load the scans of some of the tough cards and shoot to have all the set scanned along with my 68's. Thanks for the thoughts.

Good luck to both you Jeb and Ron on your sets and If I can help in anyway let me know.

Dave

Virtualizard

Dave,

I'm glad you are going to add scans for your set. It's really nice to see what a card looks like in PSA 8 or 9. I scan every card (front and back) as I get them. It doesn't take long if you keep up with it.

A lot of my raw '69s won't grade higher than PSA 7, so I will need another outlet for obtaining them in PSA 8 or 9. I'll probably spend some time in the next month going through the 1000s of raw '69s that I have for possible submissions. Hopefully a new set registry special will allow me to submit a large quantity of them.

Good luck with the variations and please post scans when you get them. Those are more important than any others in the set as far as posting scans on the registry goes. When I first started collecting this set in raw cards several years ago I wasn't sure what some of the variations even looked like. It's really helpful to new collectors to be able to see the difference (i.e. #47 Paul Popovich).

JEB.

Mitochondria

JEB,

Good point on the Popovich variation. In fact, I purchased the PSA 9 Popovich "C" variation at Chicago last year. The dealer spotted it in a vending run he purchased from an individual who didn't realize they were all "C" variations. The "C" is really not all that clear if you just casually glance at the card. In regards to the "Triple A" and "Double A" sets, those are cards I trade or sell to whoever inquires. The "Major I and II" sets are my base collections. In addition, I am in the same position you are in. I have the complete 1969 set, but the "non-slabbed" cards could not acheive a "PSA 7". Thus, I am stuck pursuing other sources.

Dave,

Congratulations on your Taylor, Downing and Thomas cards. These are indeed low pops. I would expect the Thomas card to be more plentiful because it is in a series that is known to be available in large quantity. However, I have only seen one in PSA 9 in the last 3 years. I recently submiited a #87 Horace Clarke that came from a wax pack. Nice centering and no visible corner wear, but I have gotten "8's" from cards like this before; we'll see. Nevertheless, this is also a scarce card in PSA 9. Wonderful job!

Ron

Stump

Ron

Thanks the Clarke came from a board member who got my email from the registry. I get alot of help from the people on this board. Since I have joined it certainly has been fruitful. I may make a run at the Shannnon tonight right now Bob is the high bidder. He seems to corner the market on these cards. He knows the tough ones and will not let them go below market. I think I may dub him Big Brother of the 69 set. As long as he is around and bidding on 69's my set will always be a great investment. The 69 guys may have to cave in and pay him royalties on the sale. On a more serious note he has helped me immensly on this set and I do appreciate him.

Dave

Virtualizard

Ron,

That's exactly what I meant when I mentioned the Popovich variation. I used to buy 100's of raw '69 cards a week (about 2 years ago) and out of the 12 Popovich cards I have, 5 are the variation which is very hard to notice if you don't know what you're looking for - obviously the seller didn't notice. The set registry can be a great resource for new collectors (as well as experienced ones) if they can see what the cards look like.

I think I'll send in my best Popovich variation on my next submission just so that I can post a scan on the set registry - I don't know that I have one that will pull an 8 or better though. I'll let everyone know when I get it.

JEB.