Help me grade the $5 indian- GRADE IS IN

darktone

I find these coins hard to grade at this level and I even have a few PCGS certified for a comparison and I am still unsure. mike

originalisbest

I would say MS-62, or AU-58. How's that for haphazard. Of course, it's no better consistency than you'll get at the services - one of the toughest series to grade, and that's in person, let alone from a pic.

Sorry!

FC57Coins

Tough call Mike - those coins are hard to grade in person, much less from a pic. Looks nice! but I'm leery of buying raw indian gold because of what's on this page. As I understand it, a lot of counterfit indians were made from the 30's on so that people could hang on to gold bullion.

Frank

KlectorKid

Lets see..... AU-58. Looks to have wear on cheak is this true?

darktone

KlectorKid- no it does not appear to be rub but rather a few contact marks on the high point. mike

KlectorKid

Alright then MS-62. Do u have any larger pictures?

coinkat

I like the look of this one. With the usual disclaimer, I would say low MS61 high MS 62.

MrKelso

<< <i>I find these coins hard to grade at this level and I even have a few PCGS certified for a comparison and I am still unsure. mike

>>




Darktone
can you get a closer pic of the face from the lower neck area up tp the bridge of the nose or just a closer shot of the face.?
Thanks

eagle7

I believe it will go ms63 if the hairlining is not too extensive. The five indians were not widely counterfieted like the 2.5's because of the increased cost of the extra gold involved. In fact Ive never found a cf five indian in the common grades.

jom

Look at the top of the eagles shoulder. It's AU....also note the number of "circulation" marks and what not. It's looks genuine however since it has nice luster. Most 08-S issues have good luster.....but the picture isn't much help for this....it's just a guess on my part.

jom

darktone

Thanks everyone. I will take some pictures of the area MrKelso requested as soon as I wake enough to focus my eyes.
mike

AbesNeighbor

Top of Shoulder on 1908's is always fairly week... Later issues did not have thais problem. I would say MS61 or 62 uless it has been cleaned and we can't see it.

Looks like a strong strike other than the mentioned wing.

Dan

jom

Abe: I'm not sure that is the case for the S mint. I've looked at several online and only the P mint ones have the weak shoulder. I do know the quarter eagle has that problem also. It is difficult to tell when the striking problem is in the same place you normally see wear.

Having said that it could go either way. The marks do like like circulation but then again bagmarks are easily made on gold coins. I dunno...it's tough. I suppose it comes down to actually seeing the coin.

jom

darktone

This coin is a D mint not an S. I guess the way the light reflected in that picture it sort of looks like an S. Here a close up of the face area. mike

Blade

I'm with Dan on this one. I have looked at 100's of these, targeting a PQ MS62
example and recently sprung for one. If there isn't wear, it will be borderline MS61-62.
I haven't looked at enough unslabbed ones to make that determination.

For comparison, here is the MS62 I picked up. It is far nicer than most examples, which
typically have obvious nicks or unattractive red-stained toning. This coin is a 62.8.
Great strike, but IMO it will not go MS63 because it is just a bit short on luster.

darktone

Tom your coin looks great! Can you take a picture of it yourself and post it? The Heritage Photo is too dark in all the places I want to look at. did you just buy it? mike

Blade

Mike,
Wow, you are 2 hours too late! I bought it a couple weeks ago and it arrived on Thursday. I just dropped it off at the safe deposite box so I cannot take any pics right now. Maybe next weekend. The Heritage pic is very accurate. It is a rich, deeper gold color and the eagle on the reverse shows just a hint of lighter toning in the devices.

BTW, the small spot on the reverse above the eagle's head is on the slab, not the coin.

I only buy 5-8 "expensive" coins a year (expensive defined by me as roughly $500 and up), around the times of January and July when my stock plan cashes out. I spend 3-6 months evaluating a series before I buy - looking at every pic, examining specimens at local shows. I then wait until I find an example that is unique or PQ for my target grade. Since I am a type collector, I'll never be a deep expert in any one series. But 3-6 months of rigorous review, especially in a 1-2 level MS grade range, gets me pretty comfortable that I'm buying nice example.

darktone

Thanks Tom, you sound very confident in your grading on these coins so I really value your opinion. I am very happy with a grade of 61-62 on this coin. and please post some more pictures of your coin when you get a chance as I like looking at pictures of gold. mike

MrKelso

Great close up darktone I would venture to say MS60

banknote1

I think the coin is AU. The top of the wing is flat. But these Indian gold coins are impossible to grade. I was told that you have to go by the lustre to determine if the coin is Unc. or not...

jom

Now I'm really curious. Can you get a close up of the top of the shoulder of the eagle? I think if you get a good enough pic you can tell if it's strike weakness (which I need to see to believe!) or wear. Still think it's AU though.

Bottom line here is that with this series you need to inspect in person. IMO, is NOT impossible to grade it's just a series you can't buy online. At least I wouldn't unless you like keeping the post office busy.

Also, I could swear it was an S...now that I stare at it some more that S is magically turning into a D. lol

jom

darktone

I'll try and get a close up reverse picture this afternoon. mike

darktone

Here's a close up picture of the reverse. I think I found some little PVC spots on the agles neck when I took this picture! mike

jom

I don't think PVC is possible with gold, is it? Usually gold can tone green due to the copper content of the coin.

Given the picture I can say now that the coin is most likely MS...probably a 61 or 62. Good job!

jom

darktone

jom, thanks for your responses. I think with the nice luster I got a good shot at an MS grade and I might possibly start some type of collection of these coins. Maybe a grading set with coins graded AU53-MS63 would be a good start as I already have a few of them. In my experience PVC will cling to anything. I even had some two dollar bills last week that were just destroyed by PVC. mike

darktone

NGC just posted the grade MS63! I sent this to NCS to remove the PVC on the eagles neck and then had it graded at NGC. I thought the luster looked good! mike

jom

Congrads! I was "almost" certain it was MS but that weakness in the shoulder could be wear or rub. Also, the services are all over the place when it comes to mid-MS grades on these, especially when it comes to bag marks. There's also a very high number of 5's in NGC holders for some reason (as compared to PCGS) so you might have a hard time getting 63 money for this...assuming you want to sell.

jom

PS: I just noted you said it was a D not an S. Too bad! That would be one expensive coin if it was an S.

coinkat

Nice grade...better than anticipated. I like the coin.

Blade

Mike,
Excellent news. That coin must have great luster, better than the pic. Makes me want to send mine to NGC! Way to go.

darktone

Thanks guy's! Here's my latest $5 indian. mike