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Maybe WIWAG just switched modern cards ??

BasiloneBasilone Posts: 2,492 ✭✭
in PSA Set Registry Forum
I was thinking that maybe WIWAG just switched around modern type cards. Since the differences between 9's and 10's are sooooo small with brand new premium cards (ie. SP Authentic, SPX) that the buyer would not know the "quality" difference. Also, with modern cards...some of your buyers my not be graded addicts like us but a casual collector who will pick one up here or there. In fact, they may have more BGS cards than PSA cards! If someone calls them on the fact that RC in question has a different serial number..they could play it off as that they had two cards and since they were both PSA 10's, that it was a mistake and sent out the wrong card. As long as the serial number was not significant (jersey number, etc.) the modern buyer might say "dont worry about it..this one is fine". Obviously, the buyer has to catch the change in serial numbers first.

For issues like Bowman and Bowman Chrome which do not have serial numbers on the base RC's....there could be a bunch of WIWAG altered cards.

John

Comments

  • anjcollectionanjcollection Posts: 213
    When they first got taken off eBay, I asked them (sent an email) if the items on their website were still for sale (I had purchased quite a bit of vintage items from them in the past).

    The response I got was that they were getting out of the vintage market and going into modern cards.... wonder what that really meant...
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    John:

    I believe I heard a story about a 1967?? Pete Rose card purchased from WIWAG that was in an 8 holder but appeared to have been switched out and replaced with a lower-condition example. The holder apparently showed the signs that are associated with WIWAG's misdeeds.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    I heard something like that as well. I have only bought two cards from them - 67 Aaron and a 74 Schmidt, and both are fine.

    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
  • OhioTazOhioTaz Posts: 138
    Did everyone get the email from WIWAG? They are offering to have any card bought from them regraded by PSA.

    Taz
    Buying 1964 PSA 9 Baseball
    image
  • pcpc Posts: 743 ✭
    but how does one know without records
    or the ability to see old completed ebay
    auctions which cards were bought from them?.
    Money is your ticket to freedom.
  • iconductoriconductor Posts: 11
    I received the email. Fortunately, only purchased (1) card from WIWAG. Why? Because the PSA 9 MINT 1983 Fleer Wade Boggs holder was cracked (on the side). That is what I thought at the time. It actually was the top 1/2 and I put my finger nail between the holder and was able to lift it up. Since some cases have been cracked in transit before, I did not think the worst. The cards looked nice. Can not imaging these losers would tamper with a $10 Boggs rookie. When I noticed this, I fired off an email demanding $5 for a reholdering fee and since I was going to a card show and it could be submitted, did not request any additional compensation. Guess what...they send $5 immediately. This must have scared them pretty good, since I almost figure out their scam. PSA regraded the cards PSA 9 MINT because it must have matched the card in the database. Obviosuly, they replaced the card. I sold it a while back. This places me in a horrible position. I am not sure who it was sold to and the holder is not cracked. Someone out there has a card that does not belong in the holder....

    I think PSA should release the # of cards in question, how many have been returned, the serial #s from past WIWAG submissions, and other information so the public is not left wondering about PSA's brand equity. My experience of now having a WIWAG card in a holder without damage goes to show how far and deep this problem exists. Standards have not been consistent and communication is lacking.

    However, this is being very critical and in time MAYBE more information will be disseminated. I still use PSA and plan on submitting 100+ cards on Friday at the Cow Palance card show, assuming they do not bail this year. The $20 deal for getting autographed cards authenticated and graded seems like a good deal. Only sent in cards received in person from the stars. I will be pissed if they come back bogus, since I received them all in person! Also going to use the Beckett raw cards review as well as try to cross over some strong PSA 8 cards into BGS and BVG 8.5 but only maybe 10-15 with Beckett. Not willing to pay $7 for newer cards and cheaper stuff with PSA or $8 after all the fees. For $5, I would submit many more but understand if they can not offer this service. $6 is fine but for 50 not 100 would cause me to bite. Hope PSA reads these suggestions because many others are probably in the same situation....

    Anyone with sealed cases (or opened cases) of Garbage Pail Kids? Send me a message....
  • BOTNBOTN Posts: 32
    It is absolutely not limited to just modern cards. Further, keep in mind that you could have "WIWAG cards" even if you did not buy cards directly from WIWAG or Grade and Trade. PSA graded material is highly liquid and changes hands frequently. I recommend that everyone look through their collections for anomalies or inconsistencies.


    Bottom of The Ninth
    ebay id grays
    Visit my site at http://www.botn.com
    image
  • wackypackageswackypackages Posts: 7
    ICONDUCTOR YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT YOUR BOGGS CARD WAS TAMPERED WITH. YOU AND PSA SAW IT OUTSIDE OF THE HOLDER AND AGREED IT WAS MINT 9 QUALITY. YOU THINK PSA DOESN'T CAREFULLY CHECK OUT THE CARDS BEING RE-HOLDERED WHEN THE ORIGINAL CASE HAS DAMAGE? PLENTY OF LEGIT UNTAMPERED WITH PSA CARDS HAVE BANGED UP HOLDERS.

    REMEMBER THAT WIWAG SOLD THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PSA CARDS ON EBAY OVER THE COURSE OF QUITE A FEW YEARS. THEIR FEEDBACK WAS OUTSTANDING. THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT A LOT QUICKER AND WOULD HAVE HAD A LOT MORE COMPLAINTS IF THE TAMPERING WAS AS WIDESPREAD AS SOME OF THE FRUITCAKES ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD ARE MAKING IT OUT TO BE.

    BOZO WELLS? WHO CARES.
  • joker73joker73 Posts: 497 ✭
    BOTN is correct in that it is not limited to modern cards. The PSA 8 1967 Rose card I purchased from them in September has a suspect holder, and is definitely not of PSA 8 quality. At the time, I just considered it another painful "buy the card, not the holder" lesson. But in light of recent events, something else was obviously going on. I will gladly post detailed scans of the front and back later this afternoon if anyone wants to form their own opinion.

    Luckily, I am very meticulous with my record-keeping, so I know exactly when I bought it, the auction number, and have proof of payment. I'm still deciding what I want to do to resolve the situation, especially since I might be better off later in a CA small-claims court suing for fraud. Either way, I'm not too happy ...

    Robert
  • OhioTazOhioTaz Posts: 138
    Did anyone respond to the FBI hotline that was mentioned in the Email?

    Taz
    Buying 1964 PSA 9 Baseball
    image
  • JeffVNJeffVN Posts: 322
    Robert sorry for your pain - no one deserves to be ripped off like that. But post the scan of your 1963 Rose rookie, I would like to see a card that reflects evidence of the WIWAG scam.
    I need that 69 Bench ASimage

    image
  • joker73joker73 Posts: 497 ✭
    Sure thing - it's actually not his rookie, but rather his '67 Topps card (the scans are 150-175k large so I could show detail):

    Front

    I've circled the two main areas where tampering is evident (to me at least). It's really noticeable when you hold it up to a bright light, especially compared to a legit card (I used one of my own submissions to be sure). My guess is that it is glue residue or a series of miniscule plastic fractures that resulted from the initial opening of the case.

    Back

    The back is what makes me question the worthiness of an 8 grade. One corner is badly worn, and the entire bottom border is stained (actually, the entire back of the card seems discolored). To me, this is a no-brainer, but we'll see ...

    Robert
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