What do you think about Uncertifed coins?
Cameo CC
Posts: 663 ✭
Does the uncertifed coin market have any values left or are the good uncertifed coins being send to the grading services? Further, are the uncertifed coins over graded?
Todd
Todd
Todd Abbey
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Some coins are not worth enough to warrant slabbing them. This includes most modern coins in run of the Proof or Mint State condition, silver gold and platinum eagles, common date older gold coins in EF or less and many circulated common date classic coins.
Are these coins overgraded? That depends upon the honesty and skills of the person who did the grading. I bought a group of mostly Indian cents a year and half ago and graded them myself. From I have seen in slabs, my VFs are their EFs, but even if I got EFs on the coins, they were still not worth enough to slab them. There was an 1877 in the group. I graded VG-8. The coin went into a Fine-12 slab.
The one caution I would make to you is beware of any really scarce and expensive coins that bourse dealers offer raw. It’s been my experience that many of these coins have problems that would get them a bodybag if they were sent to PCGS or NGC for grading. There are such coins that are fine. They can fair values or even bargains. BUT I’ve seen pieces that had artificial toning, filed rims (to remove rim bumps), counterfeits and other problems. Before you buy expensive raw coins, you need to know what you are doing in all phases of coin evaluation. That includes grading, detecting repairs and cleaning and counterfeit detection.
BTW, there are no bargains in coins. Why would anyone , esp. a coin dealer give away something for nothing?
NCG and ANACS are now grading Civl War tokens and every one of them that I have seen has been overgraded. If you can find quality raw tokens, they may be bargains. The way things look now a variation on Gresham's Laws could drive all of the fairly graded tokens into overgraded slabs. (Bad money drives good money out of circulation. Badly graded tokens that can be sold to collectors at high prices drive properly graded tokens off the market and into slabs.)
At least until dorkkarl finishes his collection..
Bah!
EVP
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Buy the coin not a slab!! Alot of trust in dealers and other collectors should try this for awhile! Then again, I guess that stock pile of rainbow Binions and the gold from the USS South America should sell for melt as well!!!!
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I like bank wrapped rolls, unopened boxes of mint/proof sets, raw coins, complete collections, and other raw products, and usually end up submitting the coins I think need the holder.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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In the past, when I collected large cents, bust halves, and Morgan dollars, I always bought unslabbed. PCSG, NGC, etc. tend to overgrade the early copper, and there are concerns about the possible deterioration of slabbed early copper. The Morgans and halves I collected were generally under $150, below a price at which slabbing may not be worthwhile (IMHO).
..........i realize this statement is well intended and perhaps correct sometimes, but it all depends on who you're dealing with and the circumstances surrounding the coins themselves. there is a general assumption that all collectors are involved with certifying coins or purchasing slabbed coins, a great fallacy. we are a very small minority of overall collectors, though coin certification is growing and will eventually encompass the hobby almost totally------just my opinion.
here is a recent occurrance just from my local shop, my dealer and a fellow club member:
roy is a longtime collector who does weekends at a flea-market and rich is a 20 year shop owner. a customer of roy's approached him about a widow that wanted to liquidate her husbands collection and roy sold some of the stuff to rich which included 2-1928 peace dollars. i didn't see them but one is currently at ANACS and the other is at PCGS. last week i was at rich's shop and roy came in with two seated dollars that he bought from the same woman who is still going through what her husband had amassed. they were both XF40-AU50 coins, nicely toned overall, an 1866 w/motto and an 1872. i spend enough time at this shop to know there is much still held by collectors not yet certified and fully original. be cautious of raw coins, but don't deny yourself the oppurtunity to find some nice stuff.
BTW, i almost bought the 2 seated dollars but my wad had already been blown!!!!!
al h.
<< <i>I guess Eliasburg and other great collectors of non-slabbed coins should have sold them at face value >>
Yeah, but when's the last time you saw a "raw" Eliasberg coin offered ???
Had the slabbing services been around in his day, I'm sure he'd have done it for his big ticket pieces.
Much as I hate to say it, I'm beginning to agree that quality raw "problem free"expensive coins are hard to come by.
Byron
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<< <i>Every time you buy coins that arent certified, your getting a RAW DEAL! >>
but is it a done deal?
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
I have collected coins over Four years, and have never submitted a coin to be slabbed. I have sold hundreds of coins on Ebay...all circulated and other collectors have paid just what they were worth based on the photo and detail showing. Sold off some NGC barber halves because they were harshly cleaned and the seller didn't feel like disclosing it because it was "slabbed" and therefore above reproach.
There is so much junk in slabs the game now is to hawk off the junk to those who implicitly trust the plastic over the coin within.
Tyler
sincerely michael
There is still good Raw coins available if you look around enough.
Dave
At least with certified coins I know what I am getting and I think that is worth the higher price. To me it is like getting your own private grader and one who is at the top of there game.
Todd
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I've switched to buying PCGS or NGC almost competely except for that raw gem that I come across. Been burned too many times.
But I've got to admit that I miss the touch of silver. Twowood
<< <i>All coins not in slabs are fake. Please avoid with all haste. At least until dorkkarl finishes his collection >>
hey, i heard that!
to say that bargains are not out there, friends my experience has been very much different. cherry-picking coins is still the way to go. do y'all realize that a "starred reverse" large-cent was cherry-picked out of a junk box not more than 2 years ago?
bear in mind that only some 15 million coins have ever been slabed, & a humongous proportion of those are re-submissions. literally billions of coins are NOT slabed, so to assume that none of those billions can be any good is a bit risky.
run by tom-reynolds's table some time. zero slabs, yet coins priced at 5 digits regularly change hands. the difference is, collectors who buy from him (early copper) really know there stuff.
<< <i>What concerns me about uncertified coins is the unknown. Is the coin a fake, damaged, or over graded. >>
personally, i don't worry about the grading, but i definitely use anacs when necessary to authenticate, & occasionally for attribution. i can't say that anacs is better or worse than anyone else, but they have a great personal touch (free opinions at shows) that, for me, adds value.
K S
there can be pitfalls with trusting wholly in the fact that a coin is slabbed. we all remember too well the experience legend had last year. a reputable service imparts a degree of security but not totallity. i think ARCO and michael made good points regarding raw coins and the importance of knowing your series or area of interest. that can minimize the danger of making a costly mistake, much the same as a top tier holder. from a personal perspective, collectors believing there are no good/safe raw coins to be found suits me just fine. i don't happen to agree with that point, but it works to my advantage.
al h.
It seems Keets has already taken this statement on, and I'm glad he threw in the " ... i realize this statement is well intended ..." part, 'cause I hadn't thought to, but I for one would prefer to find my >$100 raw and hopefully acquire them at a more reasonable price.
The part about there being a reason or impairment 99% of the time is more than likely untrue AND a great excuse for not accepting responsibility for knowing what you're doing. I think at some point a collector should at least be trying to develop the confidence to acquire any coin their series raw.
Maybe there are "coin collectors" and "encapsulated coin collectors."
<< <i>I didn't know they still made uncertified coins?
The mint is working on a milking machine for that cash cow!