Even Rick Tomaska says the premium paid for the 1963 PR70DCAM Lincoln was ridiculous.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
<< <i>There is a point where the premium can get ridiculous! The example of the 1963 Lincoln cent in PCGS PR 70 Deep Cameo is the perfect example. >>
Some interesting reading, including many prices realized.
Russ, NCNE
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Comments
Obscurum per obscurius
Wondercoin.
Wondercoin
dragon
If that coin wasn't auction stupidity, I don't know what is!
be a problem as long as they are traded by individuals or dealers. I know the temptation is great to let
someone else deal with the problem but the buck has to stop somewhere. I also agree that PCGS should
encourage dealers to take these problems off the market. They can pay now or later, as of late it seems
PCGS wants to pay later. How will it ever get cleaned up if no one is willing to make a start? I would say
that on this board alone there are many PR70DCAMs that just aren't all there. How many would be willing
to send those problems in to be reviewed? It would effect thier registry sets, so they won't do it.
1966-1971
Don't get me wrong, I like Rick and he has ALWAYS treated me fairly- but he must have thought this coin had merit as a PR70 when he originally sold it.
It makes me go back and think this coin MUST have 'turned' in the holder since that first sell and its most recent one.
What other explanation is there? PCGS isn't that loose with PR70DCAMS, and neither is Rick.
peacockcoins
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
One of the problems with this is that the PCGS grading standards for PR70s has jumped all over the place. This coin might have been an OK PR70 when it was graded. I'm not saying the coin worsened over time, but that the standards for PR70 tightened over time.
Now, when the coin eventually hits PCGS to purchase it off the market, PCGS may well be looking at a $40k bill.
And who is 100% responsible for this $40K bill should it arrive? PCGS. They (mis)graded the coin. They played with the grading standard for PR70s artificially causing an untrue population (either too many or too few depending on how you look at it).
No he doesn't. He has a set of plastic. Given the fact that he stupidly spent $40K on a coin worth $10 just so he could add it to his set for an ego boost, I'd have to suspect that many (most) of the other coins in his set are plastic grades and not solid for the grade.
As for Ricks comments on the coin... well, Rick will say a lot of things.
It's one thing to pay premiums to put together the actual finest set. It's quite another to throw money at plastic when the coin isn't even close.
Thanks for the registery link.
If the owners of the pr70 dcam '64 and '98 go to market, where do you think the prices will go?
<< <i>maybe he thought it would upgrade to a MS71 >>
Only at AGC!!!
Agreed. And, consider this. PCGS is considering a "Showdown" of MS Lincoln Sets later this year and at one point, a "Showdown" of Proof Lincolns is also a distinct possibility. In fact, IMHO, it is a no brainer that it will occur down the road.
Why in the world would PCGS not AGGRESSIVELY pursue the repurchase of this coin? Why taint the PCGS brand with a coin like this in the marketplace? This is what I mean about aggressively attempting to "clean up" the gross problems in the marketplace. Remember, this coin may have turned in the holder - I am not assigning blame to this situation. But, consider the "points" PCGS would score in the public eye by cleaning up the "mess" before it gets any worse. And, what if an ever "richer" Registry guy comes along and publicly offers $75,000 for this "pop 1" coin? In my experience, problems tend to become bigger problems. Why not just "bite the bullet" and clean up the problems and appreciate the aid of those dealers who also desire to help? Again, my comments are intended in a light designed to assist PCGS in becoming an even better company.
Wondercoin
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
I would think the coin would need to turn even further since it was purchased for ~40k in it's current condition. The only way this coin will ever get returned is if another is made, and this one is then viewed for what it is, not what the holder says it is.
<< <i>I heard that Rick himself stated that the coin would grade no higher than 67 today.
Russ, NCNE >>
Rick- Do you feel this is an accurate statement? Did you find the coin to be a PR-67 DCAM??
Regarding that comment, let's assume the buyer is not concerned about someday realizing a profit on that particular coin! The individual just wanted to own it - period!
If the same individual were also the buyer on many of the earlier pieces - specifically the cents from the 1950's thru mid-1970's, they acquired some very nice coins. I'm not about to say a 1954 Lincoln in PFR68DCAM at $15,000 is overpriced - I haven't had a fresh example cross my desk in years.
I was at that auction and was an underbidder on a couple lots that realized record prices. Talking with the individual later, he told me he was prepared to go WELL BEYOND the final hammer! In other words, that person wanted the coin. Price was secondary. For those with deep pockets, getting what they want is the primary concern!
And I will admit, I often buy coins with that same attitude - up to a point!
<< <i>Regarding that comment, let's assume the buyer is not concerned about someday realizing a profit on that particular coin! >>
Mr. T,
My assumption about that coin has always been that this was a well-heeled buyer having fun with his money; not mine, or anybody elses - if you get my meaning.
Russ, NCNE
Rick,
As you know I was also at the auction.And you also know I can be a strong buyer.But at that auction .....I just could not compete.
FYI The 11 year old girl Cameron Stanley bought the 1955 and the 1956.An east coast collector bought the 54.ME....I bought diddly squat.
The best coin in the modern Lincoln cent Proof that I've seen cross the auction block was the 1971 in Proof 69 D Cameo that I graded shot 70.Now I think the coin was a bargainat $11,500
I believe the only coin John Troy bought was the 1963.The only upgrades he needs are the 59 in 69 D Cam,the 64 in Pr 70 D Cam,the 71 s in 69 D Cam and the 98 in Pr 70 D Cam.At the present price level for pop 1 D Cam Lincolns he needs about 100 k to finish his Proof Lincoln Cent Set 1959 to date.
Stewart
<< <i> WOW John Troy has a nice set (
No he doesn't. He has a set of plastic. Given the fact that he stupidly spent $40K on a coin worth $10 just so he could add it to his set for an ego boost, I'd have to suspect that many (most) of the other coins in his set are plastic grades and not solid for the grade.
As for Ricks comments on the coin... well, Rick will say a lot of things. >>
I THINK THIS STATEMENT SAYS A LOT.
On occasion you may see an NGC and PCGS coin of the same grade listed in the newsletter. Sometimes, these coins may be virtually identical in quality, but the NGC coin will be slightly lower priced. It is important to note that the lower price does not mean the NGC coin is an inferior coin, but may instead mean I was able to acquire it at a lower price than the PCGS coin!