Morgans swapped in Slabs

jeffnpcb · January 30, 2003 10:34PM

A local dealer in my area told e of a story that happened possibly a couple of months back in Texas. The dealer in Texas bought a rather large collection of Morgans in fairly high grades slabbed by a highly respected company{PCGS or NGC?}. The dealer decided to unload the collection to a larger firm in Texas.
When they recieved the coins they noticed that something didn't look right about the coins, the slabs and grading. Upon further inspection, it appeared that the slabs had been opened and lesser coins inserted and the slabs were resealed. Unless you were a top grader or had a microscope to examine the slabs, you couldn't tell with a standard loop of 10x or 16x. The job was very professionally done and the news is being squashed for obvious reasons.

If anyone has heard about this, let me know if you heard about it or a different version!
P.S. Morgan collectors beware!!

nwcs · January 30, 2003 10:36PM

I think this sounds like an urban legend. If the slabs were that easy to open and swap, they would have been redesigned years ago and it would have been a huge blow to the industry.

jeffnpcb · January 30, 2003 10:39PM

They suspect the slabs were heated slowly and cut with a laser!

hughesm1 · January 30, 2003 10:41PM

Well now...this is gonna get interesting!!! I'm curious as to which company's slabs were at the centre of this fiasco.

Zerbe · January 30, 2003 11:10PM

jeffnpcb, Were the Morgans in question, MS or PR ?, If you know.

eagle7 · January 30, 2003 11:27PM

Must have been PCGS. NGC and ANACS holders have been relatively easy to open and reseal since inception. Thats why those services coins bought on EBAY better be looked at carefully and I wouldnt buy any coins in NGC or ANACS holders without an ironclad return privilige from anyone. PCGS has been the tough nut to crack. So finally someone has figured it out huh!

nwcs · January 30, 2003 11:30PM

My question: is there solid proof with documentation on the facts presented here regarding cracking out surreptitiously? If it was so easy, why all the threads about saws and hammers for crackouts? Why does PCGS have custom machinery to do crackouts if it was so easy?

jeffnpcb · January 30, 2003 11:37PM

The Morgans in the set were MS. The story told to me by the dealer knows the person and showed the purchasing dealer the evidence of tampering and resealing process.
Build a better mouse trap and you end up with smarter RATS.
As for cracking out slabs, you can do if very easily with a strong bench vise, but you can't save the slab!!

nwcs · January 30, 2003 11:39PM

Still, you can understand why I'm skeptical about a third hand story. I need to see documentation about the actual process before I believe it to be anything but a story. I mean, I could make the exact same claim and who could dispute me?

Neil

BAJJERFAN · January 30, 2003 11:46PM

I had a dealer from Illinois tell me this same story awhile back; that is was/is possible to open slabs and switch coins. He said it was done by heating the slabs in an oven and said the gent actually showed him how to do it. He did add that PCGS slabs could not be opened in this way; course this was over a year ago. He said there was a 93-S Morgan in higher AU in a NGC slab on eBay that was switched like this or was a fake or altered coin. At the time I recall there was such a coin that was relisted it seems like a zillion times.

gmarguli · January 30, 2003 11:57PM

Must have been PCGS. NGC and ANACS holders have been relatively easy to open and reseal since inception. Thats why those services coins bought on EBAY better be looked at carefully and I wouldnt buy any coins in NGC or ANACS holders without an ironclad return privilige from anyone. PCGS has been the tough nut to crack. So finally someone has figured it out huh!

That is so untrue. If they were "relatively easy to open and reseal since inception", then we would have seen it done many times. Since "inception" covers several versions of the slabs, including the latest NGC one which is made of a different material than the previous ones.

Put down the Kool-Aid.

The whole story sounds like BS.

bloodhound1 · January 31, 2003 12:02AM

The easiest to open are ACG holders... Some come apart without any tool, they simply separate - it appears that the gluing never took ahold.

PCGS/NGC and ANACS always have had a great seal. You need a brick, blowtorch or prybar to open them up... My opinion anyway.

Gilbert · January 31, 2003 12:15AM

The job was very professionally done and the news is being squashed for obvious reasons. ... P.S. Morgan collectors beware!!

No, I don't know the "obvious" reasons. If such evidence exists, that seems a compelling reason for making it publicly known.

Morgan collectors beware? Of what -- the "unnamed" company that allegedly pulled the "switcheroo".

I'm skeptical, but I hope it isn't true.

BTW, I have never tried and wouldn't put any coin I cared about in the oven, but it seems to me that the slab would warp or otherwise show evidence of being heated, not too mention what may happen to the coin itself, especially with the plastic ring surrounding the coin.

DesertLizard · January 31, 2003 12:45AM

Put a coin in the oven?

Hmmm, I guess it was then a really "done deal"?

Russ · January 31, 2003 12:58AM

I think this heinous act needs to be reported immediately!

Russ, NCNE

TomB · January 31, 2003 1:09AM

People! Use your heads!!! This "story" is total, complete and 100% BS without any supporting evidence.

Show me the evidence and bring those directly involved here and I might change my view. Otherwise, this is a troll thread.

paigowjohnny · January 31, 2003 1:16AM

If you stick a slabbed coin into a potato and then stick it in the oven...will it tone and crack at the same time ???

Twowood · January 31, 2003 1:16AM

Where money is involved, NOTHING would suprise me! Twowood

geb209 · January 31, 2003 1:32AM

I don't care how professionally it was done. You would be able to view it with a 10x or 16x loupe. Total bogus story.

EVillageProwler · January 31, 2003 1:33AM

I don't mean to sound harsh, but those who readily believe in such urban legends really need to be separated from their money. Perhaps I can recommend a good bridge to buy?

EVP

nwcs · January 31, 2003 1:34AM

Hey, I've got an MS-68 PL 1893S Morgan dollar. Certified and everything. Just be sure not to look at the coin. Cert scans out OK.

MICHAELDIXON · January 31, 2003 2:08AM

This BS story was circulating in the late 1980s. People should come up with new stories!

gsaguy · January 31, 2003 2:45AM

I'm with the rest of the gang on this one. The major grading services are very serious about their products and long ago took measures to prevent tampering with their slabs. Let's face it, the integrity of their slabs is the foundation of their companies.

The closest thing I've heard of to someone successfully swapping coins was in the late 80's when dealer Gary Fernandez was convicted of manufacturing his own slabs/inserts. He served a number of years in prison for the offense. Like I said, they're serious about such matters.

GSAGUY

Lakesammman · January 31, 2003 3:53AM

Has anyone yet said "Buy the coin, not the holder"??

MacCoin · January 31, 2003 4:03AM

I have cracked a slab of two but you sure as hell ain't putting nothing back in them 7 million peaces of plasic

K6AZ · January 31, 2003 4:44AM

This story is total BS. Who is the dealer that told you this? What kind of experience does he have in the coin market? I have heard this story before, and it is usually from dealers who sell overgraded raw coins in an attempt to discredit reputable slabs. Having cracked many, many slabs I know from my own experience this is total BS as far as ANACS, PCGS and NGC slabs are concerned. Hallmark/PCI slabs are a differnt story.

BAJJERFAN · January 31, 2003 5:04AM

The dealers most likely to peddle such a story are those who cannot/will not handle the eBay competion IMO.

Morgans swapped in Slabs

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