Front Cover of Numi News-ICG Ranked #1

danglen

This from the front cover of the January 28 issue of Numismatic News:

ICG Ranked #1

Independent Survey on E-Bay Message Boards Rates Grading Services on a 1-10 scale

ICG........8.72
PCGS.....8.45
NGC.......6.56
ANACS...5.67
Others.... Less than 5.66

What am I missing in this picture?

P.S. I KNOW THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT

mbbiker

I think your looking at a ICG add. If you look at the bottom of the add you can register to submit to ICG

Russ

It is, indeed, an ad.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

Dan now needs the embarrassed icon

Dan, it is :,o without the comma... it looks like this:

Petescorner

ICG sure does spend a bundle on advertising. I have a few issues of CoinWorld that they pay for the entire wrap around on. You know, the ones that look like it should be "ICG World" instead of "CoinWorld."

darktone

Yes I remember that survey it was about a year or so ago and I think I even voted in it. If I remember right there was only fifty or so people involved in the voting and at that time ICG was very popular with that crowd on ebay and I think the guy that runs ICG was even posting there once in a while.

dpoole

This is an old discussion.

It was an informal poll among chatters on the Ebays boards a couple of years ago. My recollection is that there were a few folks there with personal loyalties to ICG. The numbers participating were also very small in any event. This was by no means a formal, designed survey with representative sampling in any sense of the word! It also occurred before ICG's disrepute became widely apparent.

IMO, it is altogether preposterous to use that "poll" in the ad, to infer any kind of wide-spread admiration for ICG today, vis a vis PCGS, NGC or ANACS.

gmarguli

What am I missing in this picture?

The fact that this was a BS survey. Basically, a few eBay users voted back when ICG graded like a real grading service. ICG took these results and weighted them so heavily on customer service that they became the #1 rated service.

This survey is closer to fraud than a real survey in my opinion.

allmancoins

The fact of the matter is that PCGS coins do sell for much more, but I really beleive ICG grades coins more accurately. For example, think about all of the crackouts and resubmits to PCGS, the different grades go all over the charts. They are not at all consistent.

ICG graders Walt Armitage and J.P. Martin have a great reputation of their own. Actually if you think about it, JP probably trained most of the PCGS graders and Walt Armitage was a PCGS grader for several years.

wingedliberty

ICG is the equivalent of garbage. They have flooded the market with bogus MS/PF 70 coins. They grade
like crap. In my mind, they rank below PCI. ICG started out great and my perception of that lasted
their first few months. I now regard ICG coins as raw coins., no added value what so ever.



Brian.

wingedliberty

I challenge ICG to conduct a survey of 100 random ANA members and post the current results.


Brian.

coppercoins

At least a few of the eBay members posting on the coin chat board still have loyalties (although very undeserved) for ICG. If you go there even now badmouthing ICG (even with hard facts) you'll be whipped around like an unwanted stepchild.

NumisEd

danglen, thanks for starting this thread. I just received my copy of Numis News today and, when I saw ICG's ad, I almost threw up. This ad is TIRED!! Damn, why doesn't that beanie-wearing bozo at ICG just give it up??!!?? I saw that whack-job at FUN and, once again, almost threw up. His beanie/cap/hat (or whatever that thing is) is a sign of incompetence in the world of grading coins. Everytime ICG runs that ad, they lose one more % of credibility. Everyone knows that "poll" was bogus and inaccurate, yet Beanie-baby wants to keep exploiting those false results through media advertising. YUK!!!

EVillageProwler

ICG is the equivalent of garbage. They have flooded the market with bogus MS/PF 70 coins. They grade
like crap. In my mind, they rank below PCI. ICG started out great and my perception of that lasted
their first few months. I now regard ICG coins as raw coins., no added value what so ever.

Brian,

Does your comment of ICG cover a broad spectrum of the U.S. coin market, or is it really limited to a select few segments of the market? It is my perception that ICG is fine for the series that interest me. Actually, fine is not correct. Comparable to what I typically see in NGC and PCGS holders these days is more accurate.

I seldom, however, look at any coins in any series in which I have no interest. (I am not a type collector.) Thus, my perception may be quite skewed compared to yours.

Additionally, your comment about viewing the ICG slabs as just raw coins is consistent with how I feel, except that I tend to do that with all slab brands. I wouldn't buy a coin I need simply because it's in a tier 1 holder if I didn't agree with its slabbed grade or its eye appeal.

EVP

BigD5

ICG is awful, in general. Sure you may find a decent coin every once in a while, but I have seen more misgraded type coins in their holders than I care to think about. I'm not even talking about the modern stuff they have floating around, as I don't deal with that stuff, but I'll trust what I've heard about it.
As far as the two principal's mentioned above (Walt Armitage, and J.P. Martin), they must have graded for a legitimate company a LONG time ago, and forgotten the process. If they are actually the one's doing the grading, they stink. They may be great men, successful, honorable etc. but again, if they are the one's doing the grading, they stink.
Instead of that silly white hat, J.P should hit the shows with a paperbag over his head.

I'll usually give just about any coin that I may have interest in a closer look from a dealers case, but honestly, if it's in an ICG holder, I would probably pass. I believe I am holder biased when it comes to them.

matteproof

I'm not crazy about the ICG ad either. I don't like any ads where competitors "compare" themselves to each other. That kind of advertising, with any product or service, has always left me a little cold. It's too contentious.

I have found ICG grading to be pretty good on Early and Classic material. I do not collect "moderns" so I would not know an ms65 from an ms70 in that class. All in all, I feel that ICG are straightforward and decent graders on the Series I collect. I have cracked out a few ICG coins and received a HIGHER or same grade at PCGS (though ICG did certify those particular coins early on from when they started).

Still, I'm very surprised to see all of the negative comments about a man's hat! For goodness sake, it's a freakin hat! JT is a very nice man. Actually, I like his hat. It's his "trademark." I can spot him near the ICG booth a mile away. He is at EVERY major coin show and he always comes with a huge smile and pleasant demeanor. I would not hesitate to submit more coins to ICG under the right circumstances (price, turnaround time, etc).

matteproof

cointagious

i've got to agree with evp and matteproof on this. icg grading on classics is perfectly within the norms set by ngc and pcgs up to ms/pf 64 and may be slightly better than anacs. i would not turn up my nose at a classic coin just because it's in an icg holder. besides, i may be able to cop some great deals!

dorkkarl

<< <i> I'm very surprised to see all of the negative comments about a man's hat! For goodness sake, it's a freakin hat! >>

dude, the freakin "hat" still has egg-nog stains from christmas 1996 on it! the beanie has GOT to GO!

DOWN WITH THE BEANIE!!!

btw, other than the complaints about ms/pf-70, i've found icg's grades to be no more erratic than pcgs/icg.

K S

benloe

dorkkarl, I have some ICGs that I will sell to you for half of PCGS money. Your logic says at least
half will cross into PCGS plastic and you can make big bucks.

prooflike

Hey, it's easy to grade consistently when everything is an MS70 or PR70...

ScarsdaleCoin

the folks who run ICG are great, only wish that the coins traded at the same price levels as NGC/PCGS....oh well no such thing as a perfect world

MacCoin

I like IGC the prices are right the slabs are nice and I don't feel there grading is off any more than pcgs or ngc. as far as the ms70 who can afford pcgs or ngc after buying a ms70 coin heheee. people are just send the better coin to igc because they don't want the pcgs/ngc graders finger prints on them.


one old fools opinion

flaminio

<< <i>I challenge ICG to conduct a survey of 100 random ANA members and post the current results. >>



I can tell you what the results will be: the majority will favor ICG. Why? Because you'd have ICG conduct the survey. Any company can construct a survey to make themselves look good.

What *I* would like to see is for the ANA or one the trade mags to take about 30 coins representing a broad sample of American coinage, and submit each coin anonymously to each of the "major" grading services. And then report the results. Furthermore, such submissions shouldn't be a one-time event, but an ongoing survey to track any changes in grading standards by any of the companies.

And then I'd like to see most of the forum members eat crow when it turns out that, on the whole, ICG grades just as well as PCGS or NGC. I've linked it before, but here it is again: My PCI to ICG to PCGS crossover. I don't have the resources to do 30 coins, but I can do one...

dorkkarl

<< <i>dorkkarl, I have some ICGs that I will sell to you for half of PCGS money. Your logic says at least
half will cross into PCGS plastic and you can make big bucks. >>

hey benloe, you have an opportunity to do some cool research. take 10 random coins of your choice, send 'em to icg. get 'em back, send them immediately to pcgs. compare the results.

i have never done this (i do not personally send coins in, except to anacs for authentication once in a while), but i think the results would be interesting.

K S

gmarguli

I can tell you what the results will be: the majority will favor ICG. Why? Because you'd have ICG conduct the survey. Any company can construct a survey to make themselves look good.

Sure ICG would win. They'd just weight the results.

Customer Service: 80%
Slab: 10%
Price: 5%
Turnaround Time: 3%
Grading: 1%
Market Salability: 1%

DCAMFranklin

On another thread, a good number of Members are complaining of 30 and 42 day time frames for their ecomomy grades from PCGS and they STILL don't have the submission completed. The economy grade at ICG is to take 14 days, or longer. I have never had a submission take even the 14 days. Not once! Not even when their business was totally swamped with the massive bulk submitters. You have to give credit where credit is due.

CoinResource

A relatively independent survey was conducted by PNG. Try this link:

Grading Service Survey

-cr

airplanenut

<< <i>A relatively independent survey was conducted by PNG. Try this link:

Grading Service Survey

-cr >>

CR, While that survey does, for the most part, convey the feelings of the more informed people in numismatics, it does contain a bias similar to the ICG survey as it was conducted with dealers whose stocks tend to have many expensive coins, and mostly entirely in PCGS, NGC, or ANACS plastic.

Jeremy

gmarguli

On another thread, a good number of Members are complaining of 30 and 42 day time frames for their ecomomy grades from PCGS and they STILL don't have the submission completed. The economy grade at ICG is to take 14 days, or longer. I have never had a submission take even the 14 days. Not once! Not even when their business was totally swamped with the massive bulk submitters. You have to give credit where credit is due.

Credit? More like they weren't getting submissions.

Besides, those bulk submitters were sending in modern stuff which ICG seems to automatically grade MS/PR70.