How do you feel about the accuracey of blue/grey level pricing ?

barberlover

I've been told by dealers at local shows that other than "hot" coins, that blue sheet represents accurrate site unseen qulity and that grey sheet accuratley represents site seen quality pricing. What i have found is that at coin shows i can easily find decent coins at or below grey sheet price levels, but almost never below 20 percent above sheet levels for the same quaity from online dealers [why is that]

Jamericon

On average my collection has cost me 20% over greysheet for many keydates and betterdates. This comes from both shows and online dealers. I never compare to blue- I strictly go by sightseen and do not mind paying those prices for quality coins. IMO most online dealers and paper advertisers charge much higher than the same coins at a show (as is obvious). As an aside, a local dealer who did my wantlist at FUN, told me he could not find anything I had asked for at wholesale for the money I was willing to spend retail. This was for keydates with some of them bidding on the greysheet for $300. I told him I would spend $500. Talk about BS!

BillJones

In the current market dealers are paying more than Gray Sheet "bid" for properly graded coins. In many cases they are paying over "ask." This is not hype. I sold a lot of stuff at the FUN show to other dealers at those levels.

About the only thing I use the Blue Sheet for is to get relative numbers for the grades that are not on the Gray Sheet, like MS-61 and 62 and grades over MS-65. Otherwise the Blue Sheet is fantasy sheet for those think that properly graded material sells at those prices.

Fairlaneman

Are all properly graded coins selling for over Bid and some over Ask or is this just pertaining too Hot Series and Super Rarieties ? Lately it seems nice coins are priced very high when you compare pricing to the sheets. Also is this just a Bubble or something that will stay with us ?

Thanks Much.
Ken

Johnscoin

Fear not Fairlaneman,
Not all properly graded coins are selling for over greysheet. Mainly the hot items, key dates, and PQ coins are doing that. There are still some good values in the marketplace. You just have to keep your eyes open...

dorkkarl

what accuracy?

gsaguy

I've heard that some dealers will basically run someone off when the first thing they do is pull out a blue sheet as they sit down to look at coins. I guess they just don't want to spend the time to negotiate with a buyer that thinks he's going to use blue sheet pricing as a starting point. For the record, I don't run any one off for that....other reasons, yes, but not that.

Anyway, to give you an idea of how ridiculous the sheets can be, take the example of an 80-CC in NGC MS67 that I sold in Houston. I think the blue sheet lists it for something like $6,600.00 The greysheet lists it for a bid of $16,750 and ask of $19,500!

GSAGUY

tradedollarnut

That would seem about right for sight unseen vs sight seen. What's greysheet for a 66?

kranky

That works for you, Lakesammman, because you are a specialist. You already know what the going rate should be! Out of curiosity, how do you know what to pay for an 1858 IHC pattern? Those aren't in the sheets.

From my standpoint, it can be frustrating as a potential buyer to not have any idea what a fair price is for a coin. Graysheet? 10 back? Sheet + 40%? If I don't know the series that well, all I really have to go on is the sheet. I am fine with paying a fair price, but I don't have enough coin money to be able to shrug off paying 30% more than I should have for a coin. Nothing gets me out of the coin buying mood like buying a coin only to find out later I paid way too much. I've probably passed up fairly priced coins I was interested in just because I couldn't determine if 50% over sheet was the going rate.

BillJones

One other point about Gray Sheet pricing is that the bids have lowered to reflect the overgrading that the slab companies do on many coins. These include most key date circulated coins. The bid - ask range is artificially low because the vast majority of the certified coins are overgraded. Examples 1916-D Mercury dime, 1909-S Indian cent. 1877 Indian cent, most any early type coin. This list can go on and on for circulated material.

Shame on the "professional" grades for lowering the standards. I wonder who benefited from this practice initially?

BigD5

I think online dealers are going to be priced "20% higher" because they are listing coins at retail levels, for the most part. At a show, the line between retail and wholesale can become blurred, and it is very easy to get a good "deal" on a coin or coins at a show.
If I'm looking at a 66FB Merc, I'm looking at Bluesheet values, as that's the only, reasonably up to date pricing data available for those. If a dealer wants to bounce me for looking at the Bluesheet for a coin like that........nevermind. I wouldn't expect to pay Bluesheet, but at least it gives you a number. God forbid CDN updates the Greysheet with figures for actively traded coins in grades that are very popular now, that may not have been popular a few years back. How about ms/64 red/brown pricing on Lincoln Cents? ms/65 red/brown pricing? ms/64 Red pricing for Indian Head cents? For a publication that we (all involved in this hobby) put a lot of faith in for pricing data, they can be VERY neandratholithic (is that a word? ) with what they list for pricing catagories. Good thing they still list NCI and INS percentages in the Coin Dealer Newsletter Certified Coin Market Indicator on the front of the Greysheet. I don't know what I would do at a show without those percentages, given all the NCI and INS certified coins I've seen out in the market, actively trading.
Sorry I turned this into a CDN bashing post, but I've emailed them on three different occasions looking for some answers to the above comments, and was served fluff, literally, by the replyer. It's too bad they don't make a little more effort to be more up to date, or rather, with the times.

mr1931S

at a show,i've never been able to buy what i consider a truly nice coin at anything close to the greysheet price level...

makes sense...why should a dealer at a retail show sell me his nice (meaning truly nice and known to scarce or rare) coin at greysheet price level when he can eventually get retail for it if only he will be a little patient,waiting for the astute collector to come along...

very common at a show to see two dealers with their trading inventory of coins poring over flips,2x2's and slabs with greysheets in hand after the show has opened for the public...this activity has parallels to the card game of "Old Maid"...

the smart dealer doesn't trade his best coins to another dealer at wholesale prices...the smart dealer also doesn't have lots "shlock" on display to wade through either...the smart dealer avoids "sight unseen" deals with other dealers as much as possible,in my opinion...

i'm thinking i wouldn't survive (make a living)as a coin show dealer because i wouldn't be able to maintain enough quality inventory...the other dealers would be hounding me to sell to them what quality coins i do have to them at wholesale or greysheet levels...and my good retail customers would just keep walking...