Are the Grading Services obligated to return a counterfeit coin?

braddick

If a coin in your submission is deemed to be a counterfeit, should PCGS be obligated to return it?
I know we certainly don't need the Grading Services to also play the role of policeman, but it would seem they could within their legal contract (the submission form you sign) place a clause stating something along the lines that any counterfeit coin is destroyed and NOT returned.

Would this be appropriate or should the policy now in play of returning the counterfeit to the submitter continue?

clw54

What if they're wrong and it isn't a counterfeit?

dan1ecu

Hello, Braddick –

With that kind of policy, I’d be concerned that some genuine coins would be confiscated by accident.

clw54

Also, it would make it impossible for the person to return it. No, I don't like this idea.

nwcs

I don't think they necessarily have that obligation, but if they did pursue a policy like this then they'd need several things:

1. LOTS of documentation proving the coin you sent in is in fact a counterfeit
2. Lots of insurance to cover the legal fees from people suing claiming a valuable coin was switched or called counterfeit improperly
3. Some kind of compensation for it since in many cases there is some value in the counterfeit (usually intrinsic at the minimum)
4. Every other certifier to do the same because everyone would switch to a competitor in a heartbeat

braddick

You all make excellent arguments against it (and, to be fair, my position either way is still up in the air)- but I'm speaking of more obvious counterfeits, like the flood of bad Trade Dollars coming in from the Orient.
Or fake 1943 'copper' cents or even die struck copies of 1916-D Mercuries.

Is the greater good not in removing these items from the marketplace?

I would think returning them only means some end user, somewhere, is going to get stuck with a "coin". A bad sitsuation PCGS had the power to prevent.

LucyBop

Sounds like a good question for HepDaddyHall.

fairtraderzz

I don't like that idea either, I see way to many problems with that . And I know a few collectors that collect good counterfeits.. Its amazing what people collect. That may be a good topic!

Gary

fairtraderz eBay auctions

fcloud

I think they should return counterfits, and if you feel obligated, you could turn it in. A counterfit $20 gold piece would still have gold value, and if you wanted to melt it and scrap it, you should have that option, too. Furthermore, some people do collect the counterfits. I think the services are not government agencies, and should not try to act like it.

gmarguli

I believe according to the law, you are supposed to turn over counterfeit coins to the Treasury Dept. However, isn't it the Treasury Dept that passes final judgement. Therefore, it is just one opinion that the grading services are giving on the coin, not the final opinion. Also, PCGS does NOT say a coin is counterfeit. They say "Questionable Authenticity" or something like that.

Aren't Trade Dollars "not legal tender"? If so, it isn't a "coin".

All I know, if PCGS destroyed one of my coins and said it was counterfeit, if I was in a good mood they'd be getting a letter from my lawyer asking for full payment + some. If I was in a bad mood, I'd be driving the 50 miles to have a "talk" with someone there.

smprfi

If they were to do that they would need the forms from the treasury dept.
This happened to me at my bank.I had a fake $20 bill.The clerk suspected it was a fake and used some kind of chemical marker on it to confirm their suspisions.They said it was a fake and that I could not have it back.They had a form for me to fill out and said it would take some time to confirm because they said it had to be sent in.If it was real or fake I would either get my money back or a form from the treasury department stating it was a fake.14 weeks later I had a fake and was out twenty bucks.