A commoner's thoughts on the Dealer to Dealer mess in the other thread.....

IndianHeadMan

(To avoid cluttering that thread)

What a joke. These guys are a parody of themselves. If you cann't use the same set of ethics for all people the you are the scum that some collectors say you are. I personally don't care what the unwritten rules are, treat everyone the right way.

But what the hell do I know, I'm just a chump that is doing good to be able to buy a $50 coin every couple months.



Can I get a witness???

DesertLizard

Iheadman,

I hear ya!

Total total total turnoff.

Pathetic I say.

IndianHeadMan

Oh, I get it. IT's OK to rip someone if I don't make quite as much money on the deal. I see, thanks for clearing that up.

kranky

I didn't comment in the other thread, but if this is the place for a "commoner's thoughts" I'll jump in here.

I saw a situation where each side had a different understanding of what the terms were. It happens, and it should be easy enough to remedy. However, I get the impression that some transactions can be hard-nosed, and if a dealer thinks a buyer wants it both ways - a wholesale price, with the benefits of a retail transaction - the dealer can be quite miffed. Dealers who come up through the ranks make mistakes and get buried in certain coins, and the opinion of many of their peers is that they just have to suck it up. Some dealers may not be very accommodating about helping someone out when a mistake is made. It appears there is a "trial by fire" aspect to becoming a dealer and there have to be some scars to show for the education. I am not taking any sides, this is just my observation.

I have worked at a dealer's table a few times, and I know what "done deal" means in that context. It is the dealer slang for "this sale is final". I wouldn't presume everyone would know that, though. Clearly, from that discussion, there is a price difference between taking a coin on memo and taking it on a "done deal". I can see why someone would be irritated if they sold for a "done deal" price but found out the terms were assumed to be equivalent to "on memo". It would appear unfair from a seller's point of view. Coin dealers, in my opinion, are fanatical about their word being their bond. Any perceived violation of that is treated very harshly.

To me, that was the entire crux of the matter. I would bet if a return privilege had been requested, it would have been granted. But the seller is ticked because he understood it to be a this-sale-is-final transaction and priced the coin accordingly, so to him it looks like the buyer is going back on his word. It's all in the perspective.

Have there ever been transactions where a buyer was quoted "four large" as the price and presumed it meant $400? That would hurt, wouldn't it? Same situation, just a lack of understanding of what the other party was saying.

And to Laura's point in one of her posts in that thread: yes, I fully appreciate how great it is to have this forum. Even in the heated topics, I learn from both sides. I completely understand why people on both sides feel so strongly because it's all in their perspective.

mr1931S

awhile back i ordered some MS 64 PCGS Morgan dollars,common dates,from Bowers and Merena...

i didn't think two of them measured up to my expectations of MS 64...i sent them back for replacement...Bowers and Merena replaced the PCGS dollars for me,at their expense,
WITHOUT GRIPING ABOUT IT...PCGS,or any grading service for that matter,is not the customer...
if the customer is not satisfied with his purchase and REMAINS unsatisfied,the dealer has failed...

it's called class act,folks...

paigowjohnny

Experienced dealer or "fresh off the farm" newbie....if your not sure of a return policy...ask. If you are positive about a return policy...ask again.

tradedollarnut

1000% difference between a collector buying a coin from a dealer's stock vs a dealer flipping a coin to another dealer.

I can guarantee that you keep a collector (off whom you're making 40% margin) happy. But why would you take the trouble to put a deal together for $1,000 net if the possibility exists that you are stuck with a coin you don't want in the end? The only way Park Ave does that deal and doesn't protect himself with a return from the owner is for a done deal. Sure, it was a misunderstanding on RKKay's part. But there are consequences to misunderstandings.

Dealers have customers they love and customers they hate. But the good ones bend over backwards to protect the customer. Even those good ones would do the same thing here - allow a dealer return only if the owner allows a return. Otherwise, they wouldn't last 6 months in this industry, they'd be run right over.

How many of you would be willing to subsidize dealers having a return privilege in every instance by paying 5% more for your coins? Go ahead, raise your hands! Well....??

EVillageProwler

Oh, I get it. IT's OK to rip someone if I don't make quite as much money on the deal. I see, thanks for clearing that up.

IHMan,

How did RKKay get ripped? He asked for a certain coin slabbed by PCGS at a certain grade. He got exactly that coin. He, or his client, didn't like the coin. That's an opinion. He also disagreed with the grade. That's also an opinion. But, how did he get ripped?

He got exactly what he asked for from Park Ave. If his client did in fact like the coin, would you still say that RKKay got ripped? It's the same coin, just a different opinion now.

EVP

IrishMike

I wonder how many of you that think someone got ripped in this deal are business people. I've been hanging around dealers since the mid 50's and a done deal is exactly what is says. You bought it. Now to come back and say that you should have a return privilege in ingenuous. If you don't know the rules then don't play the game. Honestly how many of us would buy a coin for that amount of money based on assumptions. If you want a return privilege you ask for it, period.

Secondly, why bring this up here before you exhaust all the other possibilities such as calling the dealer? As I have stated before there are correct ways to handle a misunderstanding and incorrect ways. Publicly trying to embarass someone seldom brings satisfaction, if you didn't know that before you should now.

I am not a dealer, don't know either one of these parties, in fact the comments that they both have made lead me to believe that I would like both guys very much and love to talk coins with them. The rest of you who are accusatory and baiting others into responses are what I have a problem with.

dorkkarl

friends, the sad thing is that THE most crucial point continues to be lost in all the noise. it is the "golden rule of numismatics":

do not buy coins sight-unseen

i'm just a commoner too, but by golly, i learned that 1 straight out of grade school.

K S

Fairlaneman

Hell the guy negotiated for the coin. Strickly different than buying from someone at thier set price. He negotiated a price so IMO he owns the coin. Expensive lesson that he probably will not forget. As it looks now he will learn the lesson very cheaply. How many others have got off the hook this easily ? Not I.

Ken

roadrunner

I would never pay $25K upfront to "see" a coin. Approval service only or forget it.

roadrunner

dbldie55

What I got out of the other thread was a definite understanding of why I will not deal with some people (they made a couple of self-serving posts). Probably not who you think though. That thread was educational as it gives an understanding of the "business" part of the hobby, but would have been best served if all had been done in private.

Entertaining though.

eagle7

I get fried and lots of people get mad at me because I say the same thing about all these digital pictures. Buy yourself a good digital camera and experiment with it. Take pictures and then work with them with any of the imaging programs available today. WOW! Lots you can do with those programs. You can even cut out a round coin, fix it and then paste it back into a holder. In my opinion buying a coin from a digital picture is exactly the same as buying one sight unseen. If you pay 1000 to 1500 for a 50 dollar morgan based on a picture, even from a quote"respected dealer"from anywhere, you had better have an ironclad return privilige, period. Every time someone posts one with wild toning its all ohh and ahh from everyone. Come on, lets get real. If it looks good to you, then say it. If it looks bad to you then say it. But dont fry people just because theyre not a lemming and jumping off the cliff with the rest of everyone else.

psxchelly

dealer or *regular buyer... i am sure i will be cursed for my opinions, but how can you have sympathy for ANYONE that dishes out over 20 GRAND for a coin without looking at it (slabbed or not)? This has nothing to do with having a return policy. If you have enough money to pay 20 grand for a coin, you have enough money to get a plane ticket or fill the gas tank.

chelle

Petescorner

I'm glad there is a non-dealer thread to comment in, because I view myself as an outsider in the day to day workings of the coin biz, too.

What I learned from that thread:
1) Open and shut cases become not so open and shut after you've heard the other side's view.
2) Always ask what the return policy is. Even if there isn't one, that's OK as long as you know it going into the transaction.
3) I never realized how much contempt some dealers have for simple "collectors" like myself.

dorkkarl

sentiments echoed, & worth repeating: do not buy coins sight-unseen.

legend has been 100% correct in their point of view through this incident, imo.

K S