"Stupid Colored" Jeffersons revisited

dwood

Well, I guess I knew it was bound to happen, but you people have finally gotten to me. Suddenly, I find myself wanting to collect Jeffersons, and <shudder> Franklins, all unquestionably attributable to the fact that I've been hanging out here, among the wolves (Russ, I already was dabbling in Kennedys, so I can't blame these folks for that

Anyway, since our discussion of a couple of days ago regarding the "Stupid Color" 62 Jeff, I've been looking at a LOT of proof sets on eBay and I've noticed that MANY of the sets from 61, 62, and 63 have Jeffs with the same "pink toning" that we were discussing. My question still remains "What is it about those years that lends itself to this unusual color?" And for you Jeff collectors, "Is this a "normal phase" in the general toning of a Jefferson?" By that, I mean "Does a Jefferson nickel naturally go through a pink phase when toning, and we're just seeing the 61, 62 and 63s in that phase now? (Next year, will we start seeing 62, 63, and 64s in that same toning phase?)

Any of you numismatic techno-geeks know something of consequence from those years that might contribute to this "unusual" (if it is so) toning, ie, metal composition, packaging, etc. PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I use the term "geek" with the utmost respect. I'm a computer nerd, and when a computer nerd calls you a geek, that means an awful lot! (Right NBSQL?)

FC57Coins

Dwood - I don't know either why those proof Jeffersons come out the way they do - but they're sure pretty - I just sent the one shown below to PCGS to see what kind of grade they'll throw at it - it's the only one I have, but it's sure pretty to look at! - Welcome to the dark world of toning!

Frank

DHeath

Welcome aboard.


Oh Yeah.....and

dwood

Yeah....I think it is official now....I'm hooked on Jeffs

My dealer is going to LOVE you guys

CarlWohlforth

Well, well, well.

Welcome to the proof Jefferson world!

I will check my proof sets to see if I can come up with a guess. I have only seen these wild colors like those above on 60s proof Jeffs. I will post again if I come up with any guesses or new photos.

dwood

Carl,
PM sent

keets

..........and perhaps we can persuade Tonekiller to climb aboard this thread with some additional information or a recantation of a previous comment alluding to the changing of rinses by the U.S. Mint which he claimed is responsible for this toning. how about that bryan???? i've PM'ed you twice asking for some follow-up on comments you made in a thread last Oct-Nov, can you provide the forum with a source of information?

inquiring minds want to know!!!!!

al h.

i'm looking for the thread to provide a link. i think it was when we were talking about Anaconda's Roanoke.

dwood

I keep thinking that something HAD to be different during that span (from around 61 through around 64) because so may of the nickels (and it seems to affect the cents somewhat also) have that same, pinkish hue. It will be interesting if someone has info on changes/experiments inacted by the Mint during that time.

keets

............i've linked the thread where the comment about mint washes is made. i believe it's the 7th or 8th one on the third page and is by Tonekiller of TBT. perhaps we can get him to elaborate some with a reference.

al h.

dwood

Thanks keets!
VERY interesting...and he just left us hanging?!?

It will be good to know a little more about the process history of that time frame.

CarlWohlforth

Well I dug out my wife's proof sets. 1964 was the last year proof sets came in in the flexible cellophane packages. But that started in the 50s, I think '55.

These coins are generally not toned give or take a small carbon or milk spot. Except the Jeffersons!! The Jeffs do tend to have a little gold tint. The tint is slightly stronger starting in '61, at least in this run of sets.

These coins are in the cello pak which was placed next to a paper disclaimer which was sandwiched between two pieces of thin cardboard and mailed in a yellow envelope of the same size.

The only difference I can see between the '60 and earlier sets and the '61 and later sets is the color and wording on the disclaimer. The older sets have a green paper that says (in part) "Sooner or later your Proof Coins may show evidence of oxidation (tarnish or discoloration)." They go on to say they picked good packing materials and don't want any returns. The newer sets have an orange paper that says (among other things) "If there should appear -- what may seem to you -- a defect or scratch on a coin -- it is, no doubt, a crease in teh polyethylene-coated mylar." They tell us this to avoid unnecessary correspondence.

Could the color of the paper make the difference? I have no idea. Perhaps they materials in the cello paks changed or the coins were treated differently?

Russ

Did somebody mention toned Jeffersons?











Okay, that last one isn't a '60's proof, but it is pretty.

Russ, NCNE

dwood

Ok my Brothers....Help a newbie brother out....

If a Jeff is listed simply as "5 full steps" is it generally safe to assume that it is UNC? MS 60 or higher? I know I should be after 6 full steps. but being new to the Jeffs, I've quickly noticed that the raw coins aren't generally listed as "MS6x" but rather "X Full Steps" (even fractional steps. like 5.5, or 5.75). Also, when buying the PCGS slabs, what is the "perfect world" grade (MS70FS) and the "normal-Joe, attainable grade" (MS67FS). I'm VERY familiar with ranges among yearly strikes (from Lincolns and Kennedys) and how they can dramatically fluctuate from year to year, but I generally tell serious Lincoln collectors "You want MS66RD or higher (where you can get it) if you're going to have a SERIOUS collection." Is there a similar "break point" for the Jeffs, overall, as a series?

And...If a description lists the step definition as "6, 6, 5, 6" does this mean that working from left to right, there are 6 full steps, then only 5 about 3/4 across, then full again on the far right?

Thanks in advance!

dwood

After studying the popu;ation reports, I think I can answer one of my own questions, but still would like feedback from those of you more experienced with Jeffs than I am:

It looks as if MS65-66 is about as good as you can hope for, with the occasional exception of a grade lower or higher. So is MS65-66 a good, general rule for building a "better than average" collection?

DHeath

I'll let the real Jeff experts answer the steps questions, but I will add that PCGS recognizes 5 steps as full and 6 are possible. Some dates are nearly impossible in FS and 65+, and nickels, being a harder compound than most coinage seem generally more mushy. Oh, and I had to add one more pic. This one just got holdered at PCGS. This type of toning is my favorite.