Do fingerprints change a coin's grade?

fcloud

The subject line says it all.

When coins are graded, do the graders take into account the fingerprints on a coin? If so, how much would it knock down a grade? One point? Two? Body bag? Would it impact a white coin more than a toned coin?

Did you know if you were not the original submitter of a coin and it grows a fingerprint over time, that PCGS will only look at the coin if you send them twenty-five bucks?

Does PCGS go out of their way to make their customers upset?

Comments???

nwcs

Definitely affects grade because it affects eye appeal (the largest component of the grade). How much depends on how contrasting the print is, where it is, how many, etc. But I would say it could be as little as half a grade (for a slider to bump down) to as many as a couple (for really bad ones).

Lakesammman

You've raised several issues.

First, what's a coin worth with a major fingerprint - not worth buying, in my book.

The second issue is a print developing after submission. I photograph my coins extensively. It's worth documenting the condition of a coin before submission so that if problems develop afterwards, you have recourse. This is the primary reason I don't crack out coins - the issue of who put the print on the coin. If you send it in slabbed, there is no question.

Android

My understanding is that a coin cannot grade MS66 or above with a fingerprint on it. Fingerprints on proof coins are obviously more distracting and affect the grade more. This may be a good question for coinguy1, as he used to be a professional grader. Mark, any comments?

Andy

RegistryCoin

I don't know if a print makes a coin's grade change but it makes a coin entirely worthless and undesirable to me.
The print draws way too much attention from the coin, and the thought that our/your trusted grading co. did it, ruins "coin collecting".
Is a finger print important? To me, yes.

fcloud

The coin is a Merc, I know what a suprise. The coin is not worth sending in. Take a look at the image. The rest of the coin is pure white.

Fairlaneman

Andy:

They can go MS66 with a Finger Print. I have one and really do not know what to do with the thing. Not worth the time and trouble to send it back to PCGS. RC is right, the thing is worthless to me anyway.

Ken

MastaHanky

I sure didn't think this was an MS64 coin (as graded) after this print develop.

Gerry

I'm with RegistryCoin! To me, a fingerprint is a much more severe defect than a nick or spot or whatever, because it is man-made as opposed to being a mechanical flaw.

dlshaw

I just saw a really nice red Indian head cent sunday and was gonna buy it as price was right, that is until I got a closer look, Yep big old thumb print. I passed on it.

RegistryCoin

<< <i>the thing >>


That about says it all..

Lakesammman

I've seen coins up to 30K with major fingerprints - not sure why anyone would bid on such a coin. Can anyone beat that price??

fcloud

The coin came from one of their authorized dealers. I really doubt they sent it in that way.

MastaHanky,
I am positive that if I spent the money to send it back it would come back as graded.

Chalk it up to education. I will now look at coins with an eye to try to determine if a fingerprint will show up later!

RegistryCoin

New terminology:
The Thing. An undeterminable print made from either a THumb or a fINGer.
As in: "I know it got "thingered" in the slabbing room".

Android

Ken,

Have you thought about NCS? I've heard they do wonders with fresh prints...

Andy

Twowood

Is there ANY way to remove a finferprint? Twowood

kaleidoscopic

If they are undetectable at the time of grading, obviously no. I agree with most here that a print takes away from eye appeal. One a toned coin, the toning can occasionaly hide a print.

Either way, I prefer to have no prints. As far as I know, I don't believe there is a fool-proof way to predict if a fingerprint will develop on the coin in the future.

Its likely, that some coins have been slabbed with visible prints. I'm not a grader, and any guess of mine with respect to a print's effect on the grade, is that, a guess.

As always, buy what you feel good about. Move on. Kscope

prooflike

I think it depends on size, severity, location and what the grade would be without the print. A 67 with a noticeable print would be knocked down to a 66(maybe a 65 if it is severe enough) but a 62 shouldnt be knocked down to a 61. I have a technical 62 Morgan with multiple prints on front and back, noticeable but not severe, and it stayed a 62.

So I think there is more to factor in than just asking if a print can affect the grade; the answer is maybe.

perfectstrike

If PCGS offered FP (full fingerprint) and PF (partial fingerprint) designations they might at least be collectible

perfectstrike

Cougar1978

Certainly a fingerprint will make a coin more difficult to sell.

sellitstore

Zombie thread-21 years old and the answer is still "yes".

Walkerfan

I don’t like fingerprints and, yes, they limit the grade.

OAKSTAR

@Twowood said:
Is there ANY way to remove a finferprint? Twowood

No, once it's baked or etched into the surface it's toast!

OAKSTAR

@Walkerfan said:
I don’t like fingerprints and, yes, they limit the grade.

It might limit the grade but I don't believe it prevents it from getting a straight grade.

Walkerfan

@OAKSTAR said:

@Walkerfan said:
I don’t like fingerprints and, yes, they limit the grade.

It might limit the grade but I don't believe it prevents it from getting a straight grade.

That’s correct. There are plenty of straight graded coins with blatantly large and/or noticeable fingerprints.

World67

OAKSTAR

@Walkerfan said:

@OAKSTAR said:

@Walkerfan said:
I don’t like fingerprints and, yes, they limit the grade.

It might limit the grade but I don't believe it prevents it from getting a straight grade.

That’s correct. There are plenty of straight graded coins with blatantly large and/or noticeable fingerprints.

I should start a thread: "Post your graded coins with fingerprints" 😉

Colonialcoin

A fingerprint doesn’t change the “grade” of anything. For me it affects the eye appeal of the coin and becomes an easy pass. Others may not care.

PerryHall

@Colonialcoin said:
A fingerprint doesn’t change the “grade” of anything. For me it affects the eye appeal of the coin and becomes an easy pass. Others may not care.

Since "eye appeal" is a grading factor, I can see an ugly fingerprint dropping the grade of a mint state coin a point or two.

Catbert

@Cougar1978 said:
Certainly a fingerprint will make a coin more difficult to sell.

Such wisdom and so worthy to add to a two decade old thread. Amazing contribution!

tcollects

I don't like fingerprints myself, but it would be cool to be able to identify whose fingerprint is on a coin, and might even add value if it's from a famous collector or historical figure, I'm thinking of that pretty Gobrecht dollar with the giant print in the field - what if that was Gobrecht's own print, or Mickley's, etc?

hummingbird_coins

@Android said:
Ken,

Have you thought about NCS? I've heard they do wonders with fresh prints...

Andy

Fresh Prints of Bel-Air

Jacques_Loungecoque

Fingerprints are the kiss of death for me. Automatic non-negotiable pass.

DCW

This thread is old enough to drink.
In my opinion, a fingerprint should limit an uncirculated coin to the grade of MS62. That's about what a Mint coin gets with a distracting spot or other issue.

DisneyFan

And I was just showing this catamount in tall grass. Will it CAC?

CaptHenway

I wonder how this coin looked back in 2003?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395532522808?itmmeta=01J2Y7NQZ1V602D29PQMFQHNH5&amp;hash=item5c17935538:g:kvYAAOSwbdFmM3Of&amp;itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwAoRc3EgTdqFRKmMJ/pLa7BHeTR14WjibOkRdxGxKmEpLSwDGznyQmEtu/pVuXS1fXJLwBsjG2c6IivAEutDK7A4xBH0YWU6ckPjjo5kKT+TFxNBYcn8g1OsAEfwA5UDzsOdzcBN8na46KX4DLpHYcQ5qoKu1FysrYKSSJov+FtlL4XOVkVQSIITNAQ9FnU+VsriJqpA2Z24YZonr0tNtcfj3Jg1eOQqouMEiXD2CimnlKUQsz7jbcpvuZeSBUxZZw==|tkp:Bk9SR8z_1seXZA

hummingbird_coins

@CaptHenway said:
I wonder how this coin looked back in 2003?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395532522808?itmmeta=01J2Y7NQZ1V602D29PQMFQHNH5&amp;hash=item5c17935538:g:kvYAAOSwbdFmM3Of&amp;itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwAoRc3EgTdqFRKmMJ/pLa7BHeTR14WjibOkRdxGxKmEpLSwDGznyQmEtu/pVuXS1fXJLwBsjG2c6IivAEutDK7A4xBH0YWU6ckPjjo5kKT+TFxNBYcn8g1OsAEfwA5UDzsOdzcBN8na46KX4DLpHYcQ5qoKu1FysrYKSSJov+FtlL4XOVkVQSIITNAQ9FnU+VsriJqpA2Z24YZonr0tNtcfj3Jg1eOQqouMEiXD2CimnlKUQsz7jbcpvuZeSBUxZZw==|tkp:Bk9SR8z_1seXZA

They didn't even bother removing the outdated(?) $500 sticker before taking pictures of the slab.

Cougar1978

Fingerprints can cause a coin to be discounted. What is the highest graded fingerprinted coin you have seen? How did you do with it shopping it around the bourse?

As far as will fingerprinted coins CAC as I don’t seek them no experience with that issue. Submitted any?

CRHer700

@Cougar1978 said:
Certainly a fingerprint will make a coin more difficult to sell.

Not this again. Why the old threads?

CRHer700

@CaptHenway said:
I wonder how this coin looked back in 2003?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395532522808?itmmeta=01J2Y7NQZ1V602D29PQMFQHNH5&amp;hash=item5c17935538:g:kvYAAOSwbdFmM3Of&amp;itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwAoRc3EgTdqFRKmMJ/pLa7BHeTR14WjibOkRdxGxKmEpLSwDGznyQmEtu/pVuXS1fXJLwBsjG2c6IivAEutDK7A4xBH0YWU6ckPjjo5kKT+TFxNBYcn8g1OsAEfwA5UDzsOdzcBN8na46KX4DLpHYcQ5qoKu1FysrYKSSJov+FtlL4XOVkVQSIITNAQ9FnU+VsriJqpA2Z24YZonr0tNtcfj3Jg1eOQqouMEiXD2CimnlKUQsz7jbcpvuZeSBUxZZw==|tkp:Bk9SR8z_1seXZA

Maybe it actually was in an NGC holder back then. (The title says "NGC set registry")