ICG

rd5425 · January 20, 2003 2:00AM

I was just wondering what you guys think about ICG? I always here people bashing ACG, PCI, and NTC, and I here people glorifying PCGS, NGC, and ANACS but I have never heard much feedback about ICG. Most of my coins are slabbed by ICG and I think they are a high quality grading service. Just wondering what you guys think about them and if you have had any bad experiances with them.

coppercoins · January 20, 2003 2:08AM

I don't kow much about their grading of other series, but ICG almost consistently overgrades Lincoln cents...but their overgrading isn't much worse than NGC in that area. As for Lincolns, they come in fourth behind ANACS, PCGS, and NGC, in that order.

NumisEd · January 20, 2003 2:32AM

I am not impressed with their opinions, although I have seen a couple of properly graded coins in ICG holders. They seem to have a proprietary grading standard with regard to early bust material, IMHO. Ed

wingedliberty · January 20, 2003 2:33AM

Here is a free service that I offer as far as how grading services rank
in order of quality and consistency.

1.PCGS
2.NGC
3.ANACS
4.PCI
5.SEGS
6.ICG
7.NTC
8.ACG.

I hope this helps.

Brian.

danglen · January 20, 2003 2:42AM

I have had several coins cross grade for grade from ICG to NGC holders. Of course, they were cracked out before they were submitted, so I don't know if there is a bias or not.

I would personally rank ICG above PCI and SEGS and put them on the same level as ANACS, but without the same marketability for their slab. I also think they hurt themselves when they did those big State Quarters and Sacagewea Dollar signature promotions. Kind of made them suspect as a serious numismatic grading service in the eyes of some. ...Just MHO

TomB · January 20, 2003 2:45AM

I have handled and otherwise seen some exceptionally attractive and well-graded coinage in ICG holders. Of course, I have seen some coins that I do not agree with the grade, either. I do not do anything with moderns (post-1964) and have heard that their modern grading is particularly loose as is their CAM and DCAM designations.

kobrakoins · January 20, 2003 2:49AM

!.PCGS
2 NGC
3.ANACS
4.ICG
5.PCI
6.NTC
7.SEGS
8.ISN
9.ACG
and so on

NBSQLGeek · January 20, 2003 2:50AM

I will soon begin sending some coins to ICG, since i love the holders , prices, and the dealer submission deal. I dont care for the PCGS chance game. Stick with consistency.

danglen · January 20, 2003 2:53AM

OK, I can make a list as well!

1.PGS
2.NGC
3.PCGS
4.ANACS
5.ICG
6.SEGS
7.PCI
I don't consider NTC or ACG to be legitimate grading services

rd5425 · January 20, 2003 2:57AM

Im not familiar with PGS are they any good?

dan1ecu · January 20, 2003 3:02AM

Welcome, rd5425!

For what it’s worth, I tried to cross an ICG-graded MS 67 Washington quarter to PCGS and it didn’t cross (even as an MS66, which was my minimum grade). The coin had too many marks visible on the cheek and neck. I also had a Jefferson nickel downgraded from MS67 FS to MS66 FS. Again, ICG was a little too tolerant of marks in the focal areas. From what I understand, they are known for overgrading high-end mint state coins. I also have read comments from many collectors who claim that ICG does a good job at grading circulated classical coins. If I were considering buying an ICG-graded coin, I’d check the auction archives at Heritage.com to see what that particular coin in an ICG holder is going for. It might be much less than the going rate for an NGC or PCGS-graded coin.

Dan

NumisEd · January 20, 2003 3:05AM

My experiences show that ICG has a hard time identifiying cleaned coins that have been retoned. I am specifically referring to bust halves. Many of the EF's and AU's that I have seen were lightly cleaned coins. Don't get me started on their MS coins. I could get my entire AU accumulation of bust halves in ICG unc holders, based on their standards.

DCAMFranklin · January 20, 2003 3:10AM

There have been numerous threads here in which Members have listed submissions with numerous crack-out crosses to NGC and PCGS. Personally, I like the halves and I have found them to be very accurate and consistent graders of the Seated Halves, Walkers and Franklins.

They have made many mistakes in the Modern coins (DHeath will tell you the Kennedy series in particular and I will mostly agree) and it has hurt them. I will say that I have never found their grading of the proof Silver Eagles to be anything less than wonderful. The problem with trying to crack-out cross those coins to PCGS was more a function of PCGS having stomped on the PR-70 grade, rather than the quality of the coin. Now that David Hall assures us that PR-70 candidate coins will receive the grade they deserve, that may well change.

Pushkin · January 20, 2003 3:12AM

<< <i>OK, I can make a list as well!

1.PGS

2.NGC
3.PCGS
4.ANACS
5.ICG
6.SEGS
7.PCI
I don't consider NTC or ACG to be legitimate grading services. >>

Danglen is a scholar and a gentleman - and he knows his grading services!

Regards,
Pushkin

TONEDDOLLARS · January 20, 2003 3:18AM

In what I collect, toned Morgan dollars they apppear to be as consistent as NGC & PCGS. they all over and under grade. Back before I knew any better I had some ICG cross at PCGS, six submitted and1 upgraded 4 crossed and 1 down graded. I bet this is about the same results that I could expect with NGC and PCGS. THANK God I wised up and decided to keep this grading money for additional coins. Who really cares what these companys say. I want the coin for the coin. I know one collector (who I respect an awful lot) that takes his purchases out of there holders and puts them in capital plastic holders. He feels the grade distracts from the beatuy of the toned coin. You know what, He is absolutley correct. I have given much thought to doing my collection this way. My coins will sell on there beauty and toning not there grade when and if I decide to sell.

Placid · January 20, 2003 4:54AM

I sent 2 icg and 3 anacs slabs to pcgs for crossover.
One icg went +1 and the other -1 grade.
One anacs went -10, one-5, one dnc for thumbing.

wingedliberty · January 20, 2003 5:26AM

I think PGS is Pushkin grading service. It was founded by the famous Russian
poet. They started grading Czarist roubles in babushka caps.

Brian

flaminio · January 21, 2003 2:31AM

<< <i>Here is a free service that I offer as far as how grading services rank
in order of quality and consistency.

1.PCGS
2.NGC
3.ANACS
4.PCI
5.SEGS
6.ICG
7.NTC
8.ACG.

I hope this helps. >>

I can't imagine how you can rank PCI above SEGS and ICG. Maybe the old old PCI, but those days are long gone. PCI *sucks* now, down with the bottom-feeders. For example:

PCI to ICG to PCGS

But as always -- buy the coin, not the holder.

gmarguli · January 21, 2003 3:29AM

ICG is still in business?

Guess it's been so long since I saw one trade that I actually forgot about them.

Why anyone would send a NICE coin to ICG is beyond me. You cannot sell them. If they graded it MS68, then you will be lucky if you can get MS66 money for it.

The last ones that I purchased were overgraded by 3-4 grades. I got them off eBay just to see what they were like. They were an MS67 Lincoln and Jefferson. Total crap.

NO ONE WANTS TO BUY ICG COINS. You cannot sell them. Look at the major dealer web sites. How many ICG coins are listed? Take the hint!

I
Can't
Grade.

wingedliberty · January 21, 2003 3:41AM

Greg:
You are 100% correct. ICG is the ultimate garbage. They started out with a sound
philosophy, but after they saturated the market with PF70/MS70 garbage and
bogus cam/dcam crap., they irreversably damaged their reputation. Its a shame,
because they do have a great holder.

Brian.

vega1 · January 21, 2003 3:46AM

Hello rd5425, it is said *all the time*, but bears repeating. Buy the coin not the holder. If you are a collector and enjoy ICG as you appear to... Go nuts! You can get some great deals on ICG coins.

There's the problem though, if it ever comes time to sell, ICG will not bring you the same $$ PCGS, NGC, or even ANACS (my opinon on that one) will bring. For context (so you can see that I am possibly talking out of my ear) I only own a couple ICG samples, but have seen examples at shows, dealers, etc. I have steered clear for one reason, they have a horrible reputation for handing out PF-70s on moderns. It could be argued that they are absolutely correct, and that PCGS, etc. are not giving the 70s when warranted. However, perception, true or not, among most collectors I know is that ICG is #4 on the list (take that for what its worth).

DCAMFranklin · January 21, 2003 4:06AM

rd5425- Here is a link to a previous thread concerning ICG. Some "REAL LIFE" crossovers, not biased personal opinions, within the thread.

LINK

If you do get up close and personal with the coin, whether it is an ICG holder or anyother 3rd party grading service, and you like it and can afford it, then you should buy it. With the ICG coin, if it is accurate for the grade, then you will buy it for a very nice discount to PCGS price. I LOVE BUYING 2 FOR 1 !!!

ICG

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