when will pcgs price guide include cameo/deep cameo for pre 1915 coins???

michael

i am sure there are many dates/series that there will be blank line as there are not many if any graded for deep cameo price listings but maybe for a few????!!!!
!
but i am sure there could be pricing for not all but some/most cameo coins! silver copper and nickel!

and some for the multiple pop deep cameo coins like the 1896 1898 quarters in proof deep, cameo

the 1898 deep cameo morgANS for example

sincerely michael

OR MAYBE just a type coin price for most series in deep cameo and cameo????? silver copper and nickel

airplanenut

Michael- the prices are so far beyond the truth in most cases, what does it really matter? It's very rare for the price guide to be near correct...

michael

hi there airplane well for me it is a start as there kjis absolutely no pricing information on these coins
it woulsd make a good starting point

for example lets say you collected indian cents and for the coins you collected in pcgs holders there was absolutely no price information anywhere!! i mean you do need some sort of starting point even if the listings are maybe high or low! but with me it is a start point then you take it from there! but there has tobe some bewginning

would;nt you like some printed price information?

i guess you might have misread me i am not too concerned abuot if the prices are way off base or not it is a starting point

think about it lets say the prices are off base at least someone cuodl look at the prices and say hey they are 20% too high or low and then just reajust the price! but now there is no starting point where somneone can look and it gets people to think and talk and this helpes with finding a true valuation!

that was my point

sincerely michael

Baldy

Hi Michael,

Good question. For me the starting point since cam/dcam is a pretty new area for the grading
services would have to be the value of the same grade without the cam/dcam. then what is the
relative appearance for this series and date. the harder it appears to be then the greater the percentage.
But ultimately it still comes down to the collector ...............how great is the eye appeal, how accurate is the
grade and HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT.

just my humble opinion.

Fred

Trime

Michael,
What you are asking for is reasonable but perhaps a footnote to say that DCAM in this type of this series sells at a 20% premium would be a start.I think a sophisticated collector like you knows intuitively and experiencially which coin has a greater or lesser premium with certain surface characteristics. Others do not.

Your post caused me to think further about documentation with grading.
Refinements in grading documentation may also be in order.The more refined the grading services are the more information the buyer and seller has.
This really is a retro to the days when each component of the grading process was noted.
This means we would document and score for strike, luster, toning and eye appeal, surface marks, frost, etc.
This is what you do in at least a semi quantitative fashion in your notes and posts for your coins. This is what happens if I should send you or another experienced and capable collector or dealer a coin for your review. We are no longer talking about whether this is a MS65 or 66 but the character of the coin in that net grade.
I might add that a true documentation would include further details such as die states,varieties and errors.
I say all this with full recognition that this is incompatable with the rapid low cost grading process that exists at even the best of the grading services. Never the less with documentation of CAM, DCAM, FB, FS, etc the services have refined the documentation process although perhaps not for the same reasons we would consider. I suspect they are doing it because it creates more demand for resubmission and the fees involved. Something to think about.

oldcameoproofsguy

Michael,

It would be very nice if the PCGS could include prices for CAM and DCAM for pre-1915 coins because these are the only coins that I currently collect.

Rarity will be the largest hurdle. Many years have only a few examples tops graded in CAM or DCAM. However, there are plenty of years where there are enough examples graded to get a fairly good idea of price for these issues.

There is also some great inconsistency in the market. Prices vary a great deal within the same grade. Eye appeal seems to play a greater role with these coins than with many other issues.

Collector interest is also relatively new in this area. The demand for pre-1915 proof cameos has only recently started to grow compared with CAM and DCAM moderns. Thus, one does not see as large a price discrepancy between a DCAM coin and its non-CAM counterpart. Hopefully, interest will grow out of control in the next few years so I can sell my collection an take a really long vacation

oreville

I suspect that type prices will be available in the future but to do it for each year might be too difficult unless the pop dramatically increases. I am sure the printed guides will slowly evolve in the direction of prcing by type but only if enough collectors ask for it.

Steve

It seems to me that when you are looking to someone to quote a "price" on a very scarce or rare coin like a CAM or DCAM before 1915, you are just searching for verification of a price YOU think or hope the coin is worth. The old saying still applies here. The price, yes even the base price, is what the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to take for the coin. This is particularly true of the type of coins named in the subject of this topic. JMHO. Steve

michael

wow great information here!!!!!!!

thanks trime baldy oldcameoproofsguy and legend!!!!!!!
i think laura hit the nail on the head in answer to airplanenut in his last post with the 1885 proof 66dcameo that is dipped blast white with monster mirrors and monster deep cameo

ALSO AOBUJT HER comments on the prices/value/worth of STELLAR!!!!!! ultra/deeo cameo coins pre 1915 well actually all her comments!! are to me right on the money 100% correct

airplanenut i know someone that has the exact xoin you mentioned 1885 dcameo proof 66 and totally white dipped clear clean hazefree mirrors and monster mirrors and monster deep cameo!!

it is a funny considence airplanenut!!......... BUT I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerely michael

trime mickael baldy oreville you sum it up very well!! i think that waht you all said should be all put together and published and read by anyone seeking to understand and learn waht this deep cameo cameo proof coin pre 1915 thing is all about! this would i think give them a much better understanding of waht this specuiality actually is!!!!!!!!!!

michael

for me if a proof deep cameo pre 1915 proof coin si dipped it really doesnot bother me in fact i love it as this is the way the coins came off the dies and were supposed to look and made especially so for collectors to show off the mints work

BUT LET ME ADD THIS

the coins if dipped have to have the right "LOOK" along with esentially haze free spot free cloud free mirrors and overall excpetional eye appeal

now if you have a deep cameo proof that looks as clear and as deep and as frosted as a new proof silver american eagle maybe even moreso then you have a coin worth to me ten times greysheet bid

and these for the most part do not exist and if they do exist they are eztremely rARE

now ithink more will be made but the right coins will still be few out of those already graded and still to be made so to me there will not be many more i mean stellar deep cameos that have the mirrors and frost and clearity of a new silver american eagle proof!

but i guess omnly time will tell

sincerely michael

for me they are extrelemy undervalued and total sleepers!

but i guess for the prices they are now bringing they are noyt for the faint of heart

and maybe i am totally out of my mind or correct but i guess again only time will tell

michael

i posted or sent a reply to the david hall question and answer column on here last sunday i hope i get a favor of a reply how long does it take for them to post a reply on here?

sincerely michael

michael

now for me the ultimate deep/ultra cameo pre 1915 proof coin lets say in silver would be

a coin that has deep liquid mirrors and the cameo frost on the devices is not only deep/ultra but stellar deep/ultra plus++++++ and the coin would have to be totally blast white like it just came from the dies today!! as deep and maybe deeper mirrors and frost and clarity like a new proof silver american eagle!!

and be totally haze and spot free and be clear and clean mirrors even woutout the lightest trace of toning and no cloudiness now there are some i am sure deep/ultra cameo coins ngc/pcgs that come close and they are really great rare coins but the coin i just descirbed as above in silver

would be probably under 5% maybe closer to 2% of what is currently graded at pcgs/ngc deep/ultra cameo!!

that would be a coin to own!! for that coin the sky is the limit!!!!!

any seated/morgan/barber coin this would be a real looker!!

but ithink the coin that would be the best looker would be a trade dollar as this coin i think has the most open space on any regular issue coin the federal govt ever minted! and would look the best

if a deep/ultra cameo coin as described above would be on a trade dollar this coin would be nothing short of a monster!!


i wonder if a coin like that exists!!????????????????????????????????/

sincerely michael

michael

ttt