NEW PSA HOLDER?????
KING KELLOGG
Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭
Hello everyone...
I was just thinking about all that has been going on in the last few days, and put together a couple thoughts on a "New Generation" sport card holder.
It seems like this is the time for the folks at PSA and the Registry members to brainstorm a few ideas.
PSA's sister company PCGS has had similar issues in the past, and was able to overcome some problems that the rare coin market was having. Coin holders was one of the issues.
PCGS has actually had 3 different versions of coin holders. The first was a slippery flat plastic holder (no one had a certified coin holder before...therefore no one knew what it should look like...). It became obvious, after a while , that this new "thing" wasn't going to work. PCGS then invented a plastic "ring" to go around the perimeter of the holder, which corrected the "stacking problem, but seemed "loose" and cheap in appearance. So, PCGS then retooled the holder to make a solid, presentable, stackable, secure certified coin holder that we use today. It took a few years to get it right, but PCGS prevailed.
Card holders have a similar story. The holder used today was from the old Acugrade beginings...(No I'm not going there...) They are thin, not very pretty, ...kind of a plain Jane thing. It might be good timing on everybodys part to , at least, think on a new design.
A few suggestions...
* Thicken up the holder so it has some weight to it.
* Add seamless, smooth sides.
* Add internal space so thicker cards can be accepted at PSA. (Topps Supers come to mind). Swatch, bat, jersey, etc.
* Add a label to the top edge, so there is an easy way to look down a stack of holders. I think I saw this on one of the other grading companys holders.
* Engineer the holder so when you stack up 5 or 6 dozen cards, the stack doesn't lean over.
* Get rid of the multi/storage box option. I think that a low cost cardboard storage box (like the black PSA ones), are good. If you added 2-3 permanent cardboard seperators inside, it would certainly keep the cards from falling over, and it would reduce the cost by only having 1 standard box. Should hold about 75 cards. PSA could ship in these boxes too (Just like PCGS does with shipping coins).
* Add new security enhancements "inside" the holder. A security "thread" across a pre-determined location, inside the back of the holder might do the trick. Or a type of plastic that shatters (like saftey glass on your car) when you try to open it.
* An inexpensive way for anyone to check the flips. For accuracy and verification of a card being genuine (multiple cert #'s).
With all the posts on this WIWAG issue...It might be time for all of us to evaluate the security of our most prized collections. And what better partnership than the worlds leader in sport card grading, and the world's most knowledgeble collectors.
I, for one, will stand by PSA...... I was there when the coin issues came up....... I was there when PCGS addressed and corrected those issues. ....PSA will prevail in the confidence of this issue also.
Anyone have a comment??
Thanks for the time...
Larry
I was just thinking about all that has been going on in the last few days, and put together a couple thoughts on a "New Generation" sport card holder.
It seems like this is the time for the folks at PSA and the Registry members to brainstorm a few ideas.
PSA's sister company PCGS has had similar issues in the past, and was able to overcome some problems that the rare coin market was having. Coin holders was one of the issues.
PCGS has actually had 3 different versions of coin holders. The first was a slippery flat plastic holder (no one had a certified coin holder before...therefore no one knew what it should look like...). It became obvious, after a while , that this new "thing" wasn't going to work. PCGS then invented a plastic "ring" to go around the perimeter of the holder, which corrected the "stacking problem, but seemed "loose" and cheap in appearance. So, PCGS then retooled the holder to make a solid, presentable, stackable, secure certified coin holder that we use today. It took a few years to get it right, but PCGS prevailed.
Card holders have a similar story. The holder used today was from the old Acugrade beginings...(No I'm not going there...) They are thin, not very pretty, ...kind of a plain Jane thing. It might be good timing on everybodys part to , at least, think on a new design.
A few suggestions...
* Thicken up the holder so it has some weight to it.
* Add seamless, smooth sides.
* Add internal space so thicker cards can be accepted at PSA. (Topps Supers come to mind). Swatch, bat, jersey, etc.
* Add a label to the top edge, so there is an easy way to look down a stack of holders. I think I saw this on one of the other grading companys holders.
* Engineer the holder so when you stack up 5 or 6 dozen cards, the stack doesn't lean over.
* Get rid of the multi/storage box option. I think that a low cost cardboard storage box (like the black PSA ones), are good. If you added 2-3 permanent cardboard seperators inside, it would certainly keep the cards from falling over, and it would reduce the cost by only having 1 standard box. Should hold about 75 cards. PSA could ship in these boxes too (Just like PCGS does with shipping coins).
* Add new security enhancements "inside" the holder. A security "thread" across a pre-determined location, inside the back of the holder might do the trick. Or a type of plastic that shatters (like saftey glass on your car) when you try to open it.
* An inexpensive way for anyone to check the flips. For accuracy and verification of a card being genuine (multiple cert #'s).
With all the posts on this WIWAG issue...It might be time for all of us to evaluate the security of our most prized collections. And what better partnership than the worlds leader in sport card grading, and the world's most knowledgeble collectors.
I, for one, will stand by PSA...... I was there when the coin issues came up....... I was there when PCGS addressed and corrected those issues. ....PSA will prevail in the confidence of this issue also.
Anyone have a comment??
Thanks for the time...
Larry
I LOVE FANCY CURRENCY, pretty girls, Disney Dollars, pretty girls, MPC's, ..did I mention pretty girls???
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
0
Comments
I would like to add to the list - make it BLACK
A real super-dooper holder that will cause the vintage common bulk submissions to cost $9 each??????
what happens when we all want to drive a Rolls Royce and are only willing to pay Toyota prices?
These are all great idea's. Top edge labels would result in far less handling of your cards when organizing your set's. Less handling = Less wear on the cases. Which leads me to think, why not make the new case out of a more scratch resistant composite. I have read on these boards that many receive
scratched cases directly from PSA. If a new holder is in the works this problem should be addressed.
Also if possible give it UVA protection as well.
This could get expensive $$$$$$
Thanks for initiating something positive for us to discuss here.
Rob...
New ideas are great for any product, but graded cards are unique. It's not as if we can go to a local store to have our cards "updated" like a computer. Sending in cards to one company is enough of an undertaking. However, that's not to say that PSA shouldn't try it. The hoder just needs to be a holder that says "this is the holder the card will rest in for the rest of its life and as long as it's here, nothing will damage it or tamper with it".
The WIWAG thing has caused some panic and it reflects badly on PSA. It's understandable. But I'm confident that my PSA cards are legit and that the best cards in the hobby are legit as well. I'm not going to let a stupid Ken Griffey Broder card scare me away from buying PSA cards.
RedHeart54: I don't believe there is such a thing as "the point of no return." Improvements in the holder will always be welcomed, in my opinion. I don't mind a bit if the new holders don't match the existing ones. I collect for the cards, not the holders. You stated that you're "confident that my PSA cards are legit and that the best cards in the hobby are legit as well." But with well over 11,000 transactions by WIWAG on ebay alone -- not to mention their transactions outside of ebay and by possibly others who are doing the same thing -- there could be a lot of bad merchandise floating out there.
Since hearing about the WIWAG case here a few days ago, I have suddenly become skeptical of every potential transaction. People like to say "buy only from honest/trustworthy dealers," but where have the dealer's cards been before they got to the dealer?
I returned to the hobby a little over a year ago after a 10-year absence. I was very happy to learn about PSA graded cards because I had been burned in the past. But right now, getting my own raw cards graded by PSA is the only thing I'm confident in.
The ideas the King has tossed out on the table are interesting points and reasonable solutions.Ideally, many of which he puts fourth are worth throwing out there.Glad someone is thinking of solution as much as those who are thinking about the math and quite a few don't mind a possibility for the holder to become turn of the century like.
The debate of if it ain't broke don't fix it has unfortunately hit a stone wall in for PSA holders.Collectors and PSA meeting a half way point by not reinventing the wheel but building a better more durable wheel should not be out of the question.
Isn't plastic recyciable?
My Auctions
Dave
Are you all willing to pay what it will take to have a holder of this quality?
Are you willing to pay $9 or $10 to have your 60's and 70's commons graded?
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
I understand what you're saying but GAI has a better holder and they don't charge $9 - $10 per card. It would be interesting to see what kind of money it would cost to upgrade the holders. I would pay somewhat more but not $9 per card for grading. I sure hope they look into redesigning the old holder soon.
Wayne
<< <i>Should hold about 75 cards. >>
Ah yes, just enough for a complete set of '70 Kellogg's
its easy have 2 services.
6.00 a card and we will encapsulate your prize possesions in our old holders that we thought were tamper proof. buy and submit at your own risk.
8.00 a card and we will encapsulate your prize possesions in our new designed holder that we are positive is tamper proof. small print
you see we have had a few(more than 3) peolpe leave our company in the past few years who had access to our records, plastic company and technology so just changing the label was not good enough.
3.00 a card and we will switch them to the new holder if desired.
also put the serial number on the back, and maybe provide your authorized deals a special link to the data base so when selling on ebay they don't have to tell you the serial number click on a link and psa confirms it without telling you the number.
and yet another way to make money.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>I'm no fan of GAI, but their holders are impossible to open and seem much more secure than PSA.
Mantlefan,
This is one of the rare instances that I would disagree with you. In my opinion GAI holders are pure junk. This is the only holder that I can open with my bare hands. That's right, I don't need any tools at all. Give it a try and I'm sure you will be able to come up with the same results.
PGS had the innovation to offer a digital image (virtual) service on-line for graded cards. I believe this could be viewed on-line via the certification number.
BGS had the subgrades listed on the holders and popularized the half-grade debate.
The black bordered holders of GAI and SGC really enhance the card. I do believe that most collectors wish PSA them as well?
PSA could resist the temptation to change the holders in the past because of reasons mentioned above - consistency of cards already holdered. However, this would be a very justified time to make such changes.
A two tier service could co-exist based upon the value of the card. I would pay more for an "advanced" level of service.
<< <i>Did Wigwag have a coin division?
>>
Rob,
I think you're confusing When It Was A Game (WIWAG) with some other dealer (Wigwag001). Or maybe your humor just went over my head
Joe
I found this wigwag seller while coming across a low feedback seller for unopened wax packs.The seller had a 75 mini pack in some auction and I started checking into this ebayer.I came across this other wigwag seller in his feedback who(If I remember correctly sold or bought a card)happens to be from So.California.I found all this info after reading this thread and with coin issues that Larry brought up I wondered if wigwag had also sold coins or if anyone might know anything.
Coincidence.
For the discussion of new holders here I'd like to add that I'm up for anything that will make the hobby we all enjoy a better place.If PSA has to change their holders in the best interest in protecting their product and consumers I hope we can all reach an agreement or a compromise at the very least.I'm not so big on Gucchi holders and the plain simple to the point suits me fine but if they want to make it more secure without getting exotic that would be fine with me.
My Auctions
<< <i>
I found all this info after reading this thread and with coin issues that Larry brought up I wondered if wigwag had also sold coins or if anyone might know anything.
>>
My point was that the dealer in question is wiwag (no G after I), not wiGwag
Joe
My Auctions