Why Do You Think We Care About Your Submission Results?

CalGold · January 17, 2003 9:09AM

Forgive me if this post offends you, but I am finding it very tiresome wading through threads that list a host of coins with the expected and actual submission results, often peppered with gripes about the outcome. What are you telling us by those posts? That you are a great grader or a lousy grader. And why do you think we care?

Now if you have a particular coin that you think might be incorrectly graded and you want to post a picture with a request for opinions to see if others concur that it might warrant a re-grade, that makes some sense.

And guess the grade can be fun and educational for some I suppose, though grading from a photo is really just guess work.

But if you are constantly getting disappointing low grades on your submissions you should come to realize that you are not good at grading. So use your experience as a learning tool instead of crying about it.

On the other hand, if you are constantly getting great results, then instead of gloating, how about creating helpful posts with grading tips like Marc Feld is doing.

I guess I'm not going to make many friends with this post huh?

CG

benloe · January 17, 2003 9:13AM

Some just want to share.

Russ · January 17, 2003 9:16AM

CalGold,

Feel better now?

Russ, NCNE

Cam40 · January 17, 2003 9:18AM

I find it interesting to see what others consider MSxx is or what is should be.
Some just want to rewrite the grading rules to fit their own views as to what a certain grade should look like.
Its all educational to me.

Cam40 · January 17, 2003 9:19AM

Feel better now?
BWAHAHAHAHAAHAA

clackamas · January 17, 2003 9:23AM

I don't want to flame but in case you did not notice this is a message board about coins, and a Grading companies board to boot. PCGS is in the business of grading coins and submission results are at the heart of this. I for one love to see others results. I in fact go through the PCGS system and put in random submission numbers to see what others are getting when I am bored. I like the result posts and so do others. If you see the title about submission results use your god given free will and don't open them.

DesertLizard · January 17, 2003 9:24AM

grading from a photo is really just guess work

Calgold I couldn't agree more BUT do you realize many including me buy tons of coins from photographs?!!

Yes, the submission results are tedious and maybe they could have their own Forum?

clw54 · January 17, 2003 9:28AM

Just skip the threads. Geez.

CalGold · January 17, 2003 9:30AM

As I said, if you have a real issue about the grading of a particular coin, posting a picture and asking for opinions makes sense. But how is it educational to look at a list of grades without being able to see the coins in question?

One other question that will get some you mad. How many times have you received your submission, found that PCGS overgraded a coin, and then you sent it back to them with an letter asking them to down grade because it does not deserve the lofty grade shown on the slab?

CG

presleyh · January 17, 2003 9:31AM

Seems to me it would be pretty easy to avoid a thread that says something like "SUBMISSION RESULTS" if one really wanted to do that. I get a kick out of sharing my experiences with those who chose to look at the thread. I also enjoy seeing what is happening with everyday people, not just those who submit for profit. I also don't read every thread, because some titles don't fit into what I want to read. I suggest you do the same, if submission results bore you.

epruyne · January 17, 2003 9:41AM

<< <i>As I said, if you have a real issue about the grading of a particular coin, posting a picture and asking for opinions makes sense. But how is it educational to look at a list of grades without being able to see the coins in question?

One other question that will get some you mad. How many times have you received your submission, found that PCGS overgraded a coin, and then you sent it back to them with an letter asking them to down grade because it does not deserve the lofty grade shown on the slab?

CG >>

Logically nobody would do this...How many times have to read a "submissions results" thread? If you're not interested in them don't read them...I am new and I have avoided every thread that involves certain people because already I have learned it's just going to be people throwing bs at each other and is a waste of my time...so instead of making comments like this that you know is just going to upset people, as you stated, than why do it? I am not trying to throw bs here myself I'm just trying to figure out why anyone would do this...it's an internet forum not an invite only gold club people should be allowed to talk about what they want to with people that share common interests even if it isn't 'on topic'...alright enough banter

LucyBop · January 17, 2003 9:42AM

I for one enjoy seeing those who choose to share, grading results. Keep em coming!!!!!!

coinguy1 · January 17, 2003 9:47AM

I realize that I might be risking serious bodily harm by agreeing with even part of what CG said.

However, posting grading results with no images, instructive comments, questions or discussion (in other words, just listing grades and NOTHING else), doesn't do much for most forum members, as best I can tell. I'm not commenting on how often that occurs because, quite frankly, I don't know the answer to that.

I realize that not everyone has the luxury of a scanner or a good camera but there are ways to share, discuss and enjoy coins without those items. I also wonder, when people complain about or express their pleasure over grades, if they are good enough judges of the coins' merits, to know if they truly got screwed or if they were the recipients of grading gifts. I certainly know that I'm wrong plenty of the time and I'm pretty good at this stuff.

Just some food for thought......... and perhaps another poster to throw to the wolves.

clackamas · January 17, 2003 9:49AM

>>How many times have you received your submission, found that PCGS overgraded a coin, and then you sent it back to them with an letter asking them to down grade because it does not deserve the lofty grade shown on the slab?

I make it a point to send back every coin that does not deserve its lofty grade. Its called the PCGS guarantee and if you don't, it's not smart business. I do however wish the over/under equation was equal.

LucyBop · January 17, 2003 9:51AM

People often post their grades as soon as they become available, so if thats often the case how could one have images? Images would be nice, but, I disagree and hope to see more of these, for those that don't like them, simply skip the thread....

Russ · January 17, 2003 9:52AM

<< <i>I in fact go through the PCGS system and put in random submission numbers to see what others are getting >>

Clackamas,

Me too! Matter of fact, I punched in a number a little while ago looking for Accented Hairs and came up with a bunch of Lincolns!

Russ, NCNE

MrKelso · January 17, 2003 9:53AM

I like sharing the excitment with the folks who have gotten there grades back and want to share them with others and learn from them.

CalGold · January 17, 2003 9:57AM

Clakmass,

I believe you may have misunderstood my comment regarding returning overgraded coins. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my post. The PGCS guarantee applies if you purchased an overgraded coin and want PCGS to refund the difference to you. I am talking about sending in one of your own raw or cross over coins and getting it back overgraded.

CG

nwcs · January 17, 2003 9:59AM

The only thing I'll add about this is that I don't mind reading submission results. I find it interesting to see the types of coins being submitted and what they get whether I see it or not. It's like hearing my brother tell me about a new coin he purchased but I cannot see because we're in different cities.

And I like sharing my occassional results at times because I'm either pleasantly surprised, relieved, or just want to share. I've got two invoices waiting in the dungeon of PCGS since 12/12 and when it finally gets done (25 working days and counting) it'll be such a relief that I'll probably say something just because it's taken so bloody long!

Seems that most of my posts regarding grade results and newps are ignored here, but that's OK. The point isn't to have 100 replies saying how great it is, but the enjoyment in sharing. The day I find myself not wanting to share my enthusiasm is the day I will probably leave coin collecting again till some distant day in the future, if ever.

Neil

LucyBop · January 17, 2003 10:00AM

I think if the coin is way overgraded you should send it back, even if it was the coin you submitted, cause if you don't you may run into hassles if you ever look to sell. If the coin is over graded by one point I wouldn't send it in, but two or more points, I think I would. The question now becomes is someone good enough to know the difference between 1-3 points... I believe most people that specialize in a given series know the difference..

coinkat · January 17, 2003 10:08AM

I have never posted submission results...part of the reason is that I do not have decent camera or scanner. Perhaps we need to take a moment and think about what is reasonable to post and what purpose the forum serves. If the forum is to be educational as well as a place to exchange thoughts and views about grading, posting a coin photograph and/or submission results seems appropriate. There are beginning collectors as well as advanced collectors and each thread will develop based on the merits of the topic.

mnmcoin · January 17, 2003 10:10AM

I think it is good to see how PCGS is grading. I am for it as long as people share that they thought they were right on, or off either way.

mo <><

clackamas · January 17, 2003 10:13AM

CalGold,

I was messing with you and knew exactly what you were getting at but I had to mess with you. If I have a coin that is overgraded I always consider that PCGS has its own UNIQUE grading standard. I am baffled sometimes on why they grade a coin high or low. I grade on the ANA 40/20/20/20 standard but PCGS does not always adhere to this. They put more into luster than surface preservation which I don't always agree with so who is to say unless you are a PCGS grader what is or is not over or under graded. There are occasional bluders that a dead person could tell was BS but with your own submissions? I just got back a coin I think was over graded on surface preservation but the did not give me the Full Step designation. I got the short end. Prehaps PCGS gave me a grade bump because the FS was close but no cigar and I got the consolation prize. BTW it was an MS65 DDO 1943 jefferson (Double Eye). Should have gone 64FS but is now MS65. What do I do?

Its simple just don't read those posts. I will continue to post mine and so will others.

CalGold · January 17, 2003 10:20AM

Clackmass,

If you had a good photo of the details of the Jeff, you could post it with a question "why is this not full steps" or something like that and see what some of the Jeff experts think. That would be usefull. Of course getting a good detailed photo is difficult unless you've got top notch camera equipment with a macro lens.

CG

RGL · January 17, 2003 10:20AM

I find submissions, particularly those that list the submitters' expected grades with those realized, to be educational, particularly when the submitter has demonstrated expertise in a particular issue or series. If someone who owns one of the top sets in a particular series -- in other words, one very well versed in what to look for in a raw or crack out -- garners grades below what expected, it speaks to the "tightness" in grading in that area. On the other hand, grades that exceed an expert's opinion demonstrate, perhaps, a "looseness." I, for one, enjoy reviewing others' grades and their comments on the results.

gmarguli · January 17, 2003 10:33AM

I think if the coin is way overgraded you should send it back, even if it was the coin you submitted, cause if you don't you may run into hassles if you ever look to sell.

I think if the coin is way overgraded you should send it TeleTrade and have them auction it off.

Placid · January 17, 2003 10:33AM

If I have coins at pcgs I like to see what kind of grades others are getting as well as how long it took their coins to get graded.

CalGold · January 17, 2003 10:36AM

Greg,

I was thinking the same thing.

CG

Cowbilly · January 17, 2003 10:47AM

I learn from it. I recon if you're bored with it, don't read the thread.

Crashtestfixer · January 17, 2003 10:50AM

often times what I see inspires me to put all my 65s+68s under the jeep & back over them, then I look at what is for sale in the metro & on line in slab of the same and give a HOOT. reckon if ya got it flaunt it, - gradining = - bad buying. if grading is such a Biggie then Respect it and enjoy the results Good or Bad !

Alan V. B.............. mile hi city

LucyBop · January 17, 2003 10:52AM

<< <i>I think if the coin is way overgraded you should send it TeleTrade and have them auction it off. >>

Ha ha..

I take it this happens alot? I have never boughten a coin from Teletrade.......

gmarguli · January 17, 2003 10:55AM

LucyBop, let's just say that there is a reason why TeleTrash doesn't have pictures of the coins and they charge extremely high return fees.

sinin1 · January 17, 2003 11:00AM

And I am starting to buy some of them at Teletrade and sending them back to grading service.

Say what do people think of Teletrades new feature on track and bid page - a flashing green light (you WON this lot)?

So what about that guarantee? If PCGS calls a coin MS67 and you think MS66, and send it back, shouldn't it be the same for everyone - or are the original submitters exempt from buy-out/replacement option? I guess if you were a doctor and it started to turn bad, you probably wouldn't want to.

ldhair · January 17, 2003 11:00AM

I think you should post anything here about coins you wish to share.

I'm sick of some here only to sell their business.

That's what they made the back button for.

Bear · January 17, 2003 11:06AM

I have only three things to say................Lets move on.

ldhair · January 17, 2003 11:21AM

Sorry folks .
I'll shut up.

dwood · January 17, 2003 11:26AM

When collecting coins becomes a pure science, free from any form of art or beauty, count me out.

People post their submission results because they're excited, and whether or not I can see a picture, or hold the slab, doesn't matter in the least. They want to share their excitement, and that's what got me into this hobby. Someone shared their excitement with me. When people stop doing that, this hobby will die. When I stop doing it, I won't give a rat's behind about any coins, mine or yours, slabbed or not, real or fake, stunning or trash. If you're in it purely for the science, or the financial opportunities, then you're not a collector, and you should start a board dedicated solely to the study of numismatic sciences and finance.

It seems to me that anyone who truly embraces this hobby has to have an almost unconscious understanding that the true root of it is excitement and appreciation. The coins are beautiful, and that's why they are valuable. They aren't beautiful because they're valuable.

I may not read everyone's submission reports, but I'd be sad if no one posted them here. It would signal to me that either "the fun" is gone from my hobby, or I'm in the wrong place. Maybe a little of both?

Don't you still get a little smile on your face when Ralphie gets the Red Ryder BB Gun? The gun is worth 15 bucks, tops. There's nothing special about it. Except to Ralphie. And even though we've seen it 500 times, we all still smile when he beams back at his dad, and loads it for the first time. Not because its the finest known Red Ryder Carbine Action, 200 Shot, Range Model Air Rifle. But because Ralphie genuinely loves it.

When it comes to coins...call me Ralphie. And when I can't be Ralphie anymore, or I can't appreciate when someone else is being Ralphie, then the magic is gone, and I will be too.

{soapbox /off}

Russ · January 17, 2003 11:50AM

Dwood,

Profoundly well said.

Russ, NCNE

Pushkin · January 17, 2003 11:55AM

<< <i> have only three things to say................Lets move on. >>

Yes, and quickly, please.

ClarkOfKent · January 17, 2003 11:58AM

I'm with Ralphie on this one.

dwood · January 17, 2003 12:17PM

I'll add this and be done....but I have to add it, as I thought of it after my diatribe above

My other love is astronomy.

Clyde Tombaugh was an amazing astronomer who spent his entire life studying the skies and promoting amateur astronomy. At the age of 23, he discovered the planet Pluto. He truly loved astronomy, not for the science, but for the wonder. He is credited with two quotes which are among my favorites, and which have relevance to this discussion as well (in my opinion).

Once asked by several of his students at the University of Arizona what exactly it was they were looking at in the telescope, and how it came to be, Tombaugh replied "I haven't the slightest idea. But isn't it absolutely grand?"

And possibly my all-time favorite quote from ANYONE: At age 87 (three years before his death), Tombaugh was asked by the Smithsonian for the telescope he used as a farm boy in 1928 to sketch Mars and Jupiter (it was these sketches which landed him the internship with Percival Lowell, where he discovered Pluto one year later) . Tombaugh had built the telescope as a young boy, from parts he found laying around the farm where he grew up. His reply to the Smithsonian?

"I'm still using it."

Clyde was Ralphie too.

I swear I'm done now

Why Do You Think We Care About Your Submission Results?

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