Gold Advice - Prooflike Double Eagles

Blade

I was bidding successfully on a couple of targeted coins in the Heritage Bullet auction that closed on Monday evening. About 10 minutes before the auction close I started browsing around and came across an awesome Double Eagle. It is PCGS MS64 and highly reflective prooflike. The winning bid was already about 25% over the going rate for this date in MS64, and I hesitated to blow my budget with less than 10 minutes to think about it. Afterward, I wish I had pursued this coin. I love the look.

I have not seen any Double Eagles before with a prooflike surface like this. Looks like the equivalent of a DMPL Morgan, without the cameo. How often do these come on the market? Do I have any hope of running into another one that looks like this? Is the 25-30% price premium typical for a prooflike example like this?

Prooflike $20

stman

<< <i>The winning bid was already about 25% over the going rate for this date in MS64 >>



May I ask what source you were looking at deciding the going rate?
If it was auction sources that is not the whole market. Sometimes when we see something we like that sets itself apart from others, the going rate is not going to obtain ownership. JMO

SageRad

1904, as you probably know, is by far the most common date for $20 Liberties. There are many in MS-64 and MS-65, and the appearance from the Heritage auction is fairly common. Also, I am unsure to what extent the phtography has created the visual prooflike effect.

Overall, I would not regret passing on it. I personally would not purchase a 1904 $20 Lib in any condition because it is so common. Then again, I would not buy a ultra-deep proof-like, triple mirror, quad-cameo Franklin half, either.

Blade

stman,
In the very same auction, there was another 1904 $20 in MS64 - high luster and nice surfaces. I thought it was slightly better than mid for the grade. That coin fetched $1,030. So I calculated $1,265/$1,030 = 23%. An more average 1904 in MS64 (same auction) sold for $949. This coin is a 33% premium to that one. Thus my estimate of 25%-30% for the unique surfaces. Nothing better to compare than same coin, same date, same auction. I have looked at hundreds of Double Libs and this one definitely set itself apart.

SageRad - Yes, a very common coin. But how common is this prooflike look?

Where is jtrkya when I need him?

KlectorKid

You can PM him on the NGC boards. But about the coins i have not seen any really p/l and im not sure this is really pl anyways, it is more reflective that most though so i think it is worth more that a non-mirrored version.

coinkat

I recall that ANACs will grade $20 Libs with a PL designation...if you are curious about the existing population/rarity etc., you may look in one of their population reports and work up some numbers. Just a thought...

eagle7

These come up about once evey four to six months in 63 or 64 grade. I have encountered semi prooflike surfaces on quite a few dates but the 1904 and the 1903's are the most common to find in an auction or in a dealers inventory, although they are not common at all. Knowledgeable collectors buy these coins and hold on to them which makes them even more scarce to find on the open market. Fully prooflike surfaces are extremely rare and I would pay a fifty percent premium for one of those but of course they must be examined in person to see if they are the real deal.

Placid

Some one posted a few months ago they have seen gold in pcgs slabs with the pl designation.

Old thread.

stman

Blade, understood, I was just trying to point out that sometimes if you really like something, and want to obtain it, going by the price of another one won't gain ownership. It looks like the one you liked went for about 20% over grey sheet ask which would be a normal retail price. I don't always go by sheets either, but thought I'd point it out.

I do understand you said you had 10 minutes to decide and that's tough sight unseen. Another one will come along.

Edit: correction, the one you liked went for about 24% rather than the 20% I stated above grey sheet ask for a common date $20.00 Lib.

SageRad

According to Doug Winter in Type Three Double Eagles 1877-1907, regarding 1904 $20 Liberties, "semi-prooflike and fully prooflike coins are known." " A total of 98 Proofs were struck."

There are 20,000 to 30,000 in MS-64 and higher out of a total known of 250-500k (with an overall mintage of 6.2M). By comparison, the second most common Type Three Liberty $20 is 1900, a date of which 35-50k are known.

Personally, I prefer coins that are considerably rarer regardless of appearance.

Blade

SageRad - Me too, but I am a type collector and go for mind blowing eye appeal over dates/mintages/pops. Of course, given equal options, I'll go for the better date.

I hope I see one of these firsthand. It would be interesting to see if they look as cool as the pics portray.

michael

bASED on the scan and with a rising gold market someone got a good deal for this coin! looks very eye appealling and fully prooflike!!!!

must be a real looker in person

for me a decent coin like that with that look and PL is a bargain for around 1200 when nice ms 64 coins and with no evidence of pl surfaces and graded pcgs of the same date retail for around 1075 currently.............

nice unusual coins sell and for prices usually for what they are worth
and these coins are scarce and are great lookers and in demand

usually the best coins i have ever seen are bought by people that pay up while others are in the backround thinking about the coin and why it is selling for 10 20 50 percent over sheet prices for a similar non special generic type of coin!!!!

i would rather be in this coin at 1300 then an average 1904 pcgs ms 64 that is frosty and average... generic!! for 1050!!

sincerely michael

northcoin

I am a sucker for $20 proof like double eagles too. However a dealer tried to sell me a late Type I for a thousand dollar premium over retail for the grade and that was way too much in my opinion. On the other hand I was willing to pay a substantial premium for a proof like 1850 $20 liberty which had been historically attributed to being a "presentation piece" even though no proofs were officially made for that first date of the 20's (excepting the two or three 1849 20's).