A Non-Cameo, Cameos and a Deep Cameo/images
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
Recently, one of our fellow forum members asked about Cameo and Deep/Ultra Cameo proof type coins. Like many other things that have to do with grading, the designations of Cameo and Deep/Ultra Cameos are somewhat subjective and inconsistent.
Add to that, the fact that NGC and PCGS did not begin using those designations for pre-1950 coins until approximately 2 years ago, (I might be off by a year or so) so you have coins in old holders, that if resubmitted, might receive one of those designations.
Below are some links to coins with Cameo designations, along with one that is Deep Cameo and one that is neither Cameo nor Deep Cameo. Take a look at the frosting on the central devices (design details) on each coin, along with the contrast, as compared to the non-frosted fields. Some of the Cameo contrast is more dramatic on one coin compared to another and some is better on one side of a coin than on the other side of that same coin.
Hopefully, all of the Cameos will be distinct in appearance from the non-Cameo and the Deep Cameo will stand out from the Cameos.
Some coin types and dates are much more difficult to locate with either Cameo or Deep/Ultra Cameo contrast than others - certain issues are fairly common with frosted devices, while others are very rare. If you are going to pay a premium for Cameos and Deep/Ultra Cameos (a number of these coins bring big bucks!) do some homework and make sure that premium is justified.
Cameo Proof Sated Dime
Cameo Proof 20c Piece
Cameo Proof Barber Quarter
Non-Cameo Proof Barber Quarter
Cameo Proof Seated Half Dollar
Cameo Proof Trade Dollar
Cameo Proof Morgan Dollar
Deep Cameo Proof Trade Dollar
Add to that, the fact that NGC and PCGS did not begin using those designations for pre-1950 coins until approximately 2 years ago, (I might be off by a year or so) so you have coins in old holders, that if resubmitted, might receive one of those designations.
Below are some links to coins with Cameo designations, along with one that is Deep Cameo and one that is neither Cameo nor Deep Cameo. Take a look at the frosting on the central devices (design details) on each coin, along with the contrast, as compared to the non-frosted fields. Some of the Cameo contrast is more dramatic on one coin compared to another and some is better on one side of a coin than on the other side of that same coin.
Hopefully, all of the Cameos will be distinct in appearance from the non-Cameo and the Deep Cameo will stand out from the Cameos.
Some coin types and dates are much more difficult to locate with either Cameo or Deep/Ultra Cameo contrast than others - certain issues are fairly common with frosted devices, while others are very rare. If you are going to pay a premium for Cameos and Deep/Ultra Cameos (a number of these coins bring big bucks!) do some homework and make sure that premium is justified.
Cameo Proof Sated Dime
Cameo Proof 20c Piece
Cameo Proof Barber Quarter
Non-Cameo Proof Barber Quarter
Cameo Proof Seated Half Dollar
Cameo Proof Trade Dollar
Cameo Proof Morgan Dollar
Deep Cameo Proof Trade Dollar
0
Comments
For sale?
Prices?
09/07/2006
As you point out this is not a trimodal curve ( three distinct and separate groups) but a continuous gradient.
Dig-on
This 20 cent piece is toned but still looks pretty frosted to me. It was graded last year and did not receive the cameo designation.
Obverse
Reverse
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Just because the mint didn't make any doesn't mean you can't oblige me Coinguy The Carver Hater.
On a serious note. Good thread, Mark. Thanks for the images. Certainly one of the trickier slopes to navigate in numismatics these days (cameo, deep cam, ultra cam) judging by many of the threads I have read since coming here.
Clankeye
Has anyone in the business done any price analysis of premiums for CAM and DCAM proofs based upon relative populations. For example, if X% of coins graded were CAM and Y% were DCAM, what would the premium be. Andwhat is the ratio of the preimum for DCAM vs CAM. Perhaps this is too esoteric a topic.
Maybe Airplanenut can write a doctoral thesis on that some day.
CG
cosmicdebris - the Trade Dollar is my favorite but it costs an arm and a leg and then some.
Trime - you said "As you point out this is not a trimodal curve ( three distinct and separate groups) but a continuous gradient"
I sure didn't point it out as eloquently as you did!
digon - We're happy to provide the images.
Carl - I think your 20c piece is a perfect example of a coin which does have cameo contrast but which is a bit too deeply toned to receive the designation.
Gemini - your cart is already full - sorry.
Lakesammman - We've handled a few Cameo and even one Deep Cameo IHC/Copper Nickel cents. Unfortunately, I was not able to retrieve any images - sorry.
Clankeye - thanks, as always.
CalGold - you asked "Has anyone in the business done any price analysis of premiums for CAM and DCAM proofs based upon relative populations."
Not to my knowledge, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were done some day. Right now, the premiums are all over the place, though I expect that, with time, they will become somewhat more standardized.
Very nice pics and a great teaching topic. I think judging cameos is the toughest thing with older issues. Anyone can tell a cam or Dcam with todays proofs. BTW, I would not kick that non-cam 1905 barber out of my collection...very nice proof coin!!
Thanks for the lesson.
this is one of the best all time well thought out threads i have seen on here/these boards concerning numismatics
and talking about pre 1950 deep/ultra cameo cameo non cameo coins!
overall a really astute thread about one area of numismatics that is really not talked about and that much is not known....................... but by few collectors/dealers
this thread contains much information that is sensible and really astute concerning deep/ultra and cameo pre 1950 coinage
sincerely michael
pix of a deep/ultra cameo pre 1950 proof coin