When should the correct population of a coin be listed?

WalkerGuy

I have a real problem lately with the pops as reported at auctions and on dealer web sites, or for that matter any coin offered for sale and quoting a pop that isn't current.
Now before anyone points out that the buyer is responsible for checking on the pops, I know that and I would like to direct this thread to the sellers who are not representing the true pops.
I have seen two situations in the last week, one at the B&M auction and one on a major dealers web site when a pop 2 coin is touted and in fact the coin is a pop 3. A new pop 3 for sure, but still the listed pop was not qualified by date and when I pointed it out to the auction folks and the dealer, I was met with a big SILENCE on the issue.
With these coins that translates generally into 3 to 5K delta. Heritage auctions at least qualifies by date, however, I saw a newly made pop 3 coin being sold, and the pop listed was a 2, even though the coin being sold made it a pop 3.
Anyone else notice this going on, or have any thoughts on it?
Dick
BTW, congratulations to all of the Walker folks out there who made some significant jumps with their sets this past week! Oh, okay, congratulations to the rest of you folks too on your set improvements.

mdwoods

I saw a newly made pop 3 coin being sold, and the pop listed was a 2, even though the coin being sold made it a pop 3.

I have seen this as well. You are right, when a 1 or 2 coin difference in a Pop can mean thousands, I think the Pop should reflect it within a day or so. mdwoods

keithdagen

It is my personal belief, that if auction companies want to use population reports, they should license them from the services, PCGS and NGC, and then link them real-time into the auctions without putting a firm number. Two simple buttons, "click here to see the population at NGC" and "click here to see the population at PCGS" would do wonders to help.

prooflike

or a disclaimer like "Our pop numbers may be wrong, check them from the sources yourself."

Selling a coin as a pop 2 when it is pop 3 is fraud, the relevent facts are being misrepresented. They should provide accurate information or none at all.

Dabigkahuna

It seems to vary. Sometimes the coins go right in after they are graded but for the most part I see mine going in about a week or two after I get them back. I don't see any pattern except that they seem to be getting posted later than usual. I don't watch all the top pops, just the ones I send in for the most part.

I wonder why the population number isn't keyed into the program so that the moment the coin is graded and numbered by PCGS that the Population report should be included as well?


Larry
Dabigkahuna

coinguy1

WalkerGuy,

We try to keep up with the published population numbers and typically update our website listings after the new NGC and PCGS reports come out each quarter. I'm sure that we occasionally miss some changes, however.

We also, attempt to let our clients know the correct updated populations of low pop coins that have been "made" at coin shows, when we acquire and then offer such coins for sale. For example, if we buy a coin that has a stated population of two and it comes from a dealer who just got coins back from PCGS or NGC, when we offer the coin to a client, we will say "the pop report says 2 but we believe this to be the third one."

In any event, it is certainly a good idea to check out the populations for yourself, no matter who the seller is.

Fairlaneman

Guess you must be talking about Pop Top coins here because the rest of the Population Report is junk and should only be taken very midly at best.

Ken

Steve27

"I wonder why the population number isn't keyed into the program so that the moment the coin is graded and numbered by PCGS that the Population report should be included as well?"

This would be a good question for Mr. Hall.

WalkerGuy

Steve,
There is certainly the situation where there are delays in updating the source, PCGS pop report, but the issue I am asking about is where the reports and data are current and the data is knowingly not being used/acknowledged.
Dick
This is a question for BJ though. How long after a coin is made does it take to reflect in the PCGS data base? From my own experience, I notice new coins from the Registry, better than column, when a new one better than is made. Of course this only works for me when the coin made is limited pop to begin with or was not even in existance previously.

Steve27

Oh, so you mean the dealers are actually being dishonest. What a surprise! Then caveat emptor is all I can say, unless they are hiding behind the fact that the POPs tend to be wrong for a short period after grading occurs (bringing us back to Larry's point).

Lakesammman

The pop. reports are a useful barometer, not a indication of the prevailing weather. I've had a pop. 0 coin for the last year and still can't figure out why it's not in the pop. reports. It's a variety recognized on the holder (1894/94 IHC). I know of one other in a older holder before the variety was designated. So, there are at least 2 66R IHC's of a very rare coin and the PCGS pops say there are none.

A different pop. O IHC has a pop. of 2, both in older holders.

Bottom line - take the pop's with a grain of salt, not as the Gospel truth.

DAM

<< <i>I've had a pop. 0 coin for the last year and still can't figure out why it's not in the pop. reports. >>



That's about a rare as you can get, isn't it? I've never seen a pop 0 coin.



I have to agree with Ken too. Unless your mission is to collect the very best grade available, pop reports are reading material for the bathroom.

I think most would agree too, not all pop top coins are necessarily better than some coins available one grade lower. It's just a grader's opinion that said so, on that particular grading day. IMO

AbesNeighbor

How do you know that a coin was a POP2 with NGC and the owner Broke it out, sent it to PCGS and now its a POP 3 with PCGS but still only 4 in that population, when in fact the published facts indicate 5?

AbesNeighbor

Did that make sense?

WalkerGuy

<< <i>Did that make sense? >>


Let me see, I added them up, subtracted them, divided by the number of grading services and can't quite make out sense of it.

tjkillian

The pop report is only a guide and is known to be wrong. What about coins that will become the next top pop, just waiting to be cataloged? Don't do your buying exclusively by the population reports.

Tom

Lakesammman

I try to collect 2nd finest. I can't tell the difference between finest and second finest. A good example is a monster 1899 67R I bought at FUN for 6K and I like it better than the 1899 68R that sold for 69K. That's alot of money for 68 plastic, even if it is said to be the only 68R coin in the series. 99% of collectors and graders wouldn't know which is the finer if you covered the grade on the slab.