I'm the newest and not-so-proud member of the PCGS Fingerprint Club

RGL · January 12, 2003 4:12AM

I've read the threads and never had the displeasure, until now ... I received a submission back a couple of weeks ago and only today went over them with the loupe and there it was ... the Fingerprint of the Unknown Grader. A nice, greasy, big fingerprint on the reverse of an otherwise nice PR-66 1951 Jeff with a CAM obverse. Well, I guess this qualifies for the PCGS Grade Guarantee, right? Surely PCGS is not handing out PR-66s to coins with fingerprints and will compensate me for "blowing" the grade ...

relayer · January 12, 2003 4:16AM

PCGS should fingerprint all their employees and then send the coins to the FBI to match them up to find out who the culprit is.

It would be funny if it's always the same guy

Russ · January 12, 2003 4:17AM

<< the Fingerprint of the Unknown Grader. >>

I don't think it's the graders. I have a hunch it's happening in the slabbing room. I've had two, and in both cases it was around the periphery right where it would happen while inserting the coin in to the o ring. Call Charlie Kahler at ext. 141. Don't deal with anyone else on the issue.

Russ, NCNE

RGL · January 12, 2003 4:19AM

The fingerprint is on the periphery, alright ... in the alternative: Fingerprint of the Unknown Slabber.

osirisMMII · January 12, 2003 5:18AM

Randy - Did you get a personalized letter or the following generic version?

Welcome to The Club. Now that you have passed the initiation you can take advantage of the "Frequent Submitters" Plan and receive more great benefits on a regular basis including, but not limited to - potato chip crumbs, twinkie goo (not to be confused with the ever popular "booger"), spit and "achoo" markings, and my personal favorite........ the smeared thumbing (similar to "the fingerprint" but without the fine clarity and detail). Again a big heartfelt "Thank You!" and congratulations on choosing The Club. Exclusive and reserved only for the best! We look forward to your next submission and the chance for you to take full advantage of your membership.

I think in an effort to save money they are now reserving the personalized letters until you reach 10+ level of membership - so take advantage of your benefits now!

Draco · January 12, 2003 5:41AM

It's almost hard to believe that a grading service with the reputation of PCGS would EVER allow an employee to touch a coin without gloves. For modern DCAMS, I think it would be pretty easy to spot when it came back, but what about older coins? (I should mention that I do have a 1986 proof silver eagle PCGS managed to screw up) Most of the stuff I'll be submitting this year is pre-1900. I don't think I'd see the results of someone touching the coin for several years after it's done. Will PCGS compensate me or claim that it wasn't them? I for one will not be submitting any more DCAM coins to PCGS until I see some positive response from them on this issue. While I've never submitted to NGC, they won't see my business either. Go here and look closely at the careless grader with his paws all over the coin he's grading. Is that something NGC wants to advertise?

WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE !!!

banknote1 · January 12, 2003 9:21AM

I have never heard of NGC having fingerprint trouble? I had planned to send a few coins to PCGS, but now I am not sure if I will or not??

GP · January 12, 2003 9:26AM

Draco, and where in there do you see anyone handling a bare coin? All the pics I see show a coin in a flip. As far as I know PCGS is the only grading company arrogent enough to handle raw coins without gloves.

Draco · January 12, 2003 10:28AM

Unless your browser just isn't working, it's right there in the damn picture. .

NGC. . grader. . .bare hands. . holding a coin. .

http://www.ngccoin.com/grading/grading.htm

robertpr · January 12, 2003 10:34AM

I see it! In the picture captioned "grading". Click on it to see a slightly larger version of the same pic on the next page.

GP · January 12, 2003 10:44AM

hmm ok, you got me there

I had to save it and zoom in, I thought it was still in the plastic holder they use

Well they still arent any different than PCGS, well they are, they dont have a rep of fingerprinting coins. The guy in the pic is holding the coin in the same manner (on the rim) that I would think anyone else handles a coin. PCGS has stated many times they do not use gloves or any other protection. So if that is you only requirement when submitting, you may not ever get your coins graded.

RegistryCoin · January 12, 2003 10:45AM

For the life of me, I can't figure out why pcgs doesn't address this issue. IT'S SO BASIC!
From the first introduction to coin collecting, every kid is grilled on the proper way to handle a coin...
I just don't get it...

Russ · January 12, 2003 10:55AM

<< For the life of me, I can't figure out why pcgs doesn't address this issue. IT'S SO BASIC! >>

They have, and they do. All one has to do is get on the phone with Charlie. It's easy for us to yell and scream about it here, but it does little good unless we take the time and make the effort to communicate with those who handle these problems.

When I encountered it, they took care of it quickly and completely to my satisfaction.

Russ, NCNE

Placid · January 12, 2003 10:58AM

<< When I encountered it, they took care of it quickly and completely to my satisfaction.

Russ, NCNE >>

Just curious did you have to pay anything? Was shipping both way's on you?

RegistryCoin · January 12, 2003 11:03AM

Russ... you are talking about an individual basis - after the fact.
I am talking about a company wide change to forever eliminate fingerprints - before it happens, to anyone, ever again...

ps. I'm sure you agree, and I'm happy that they've taken care of those coins they damaged. Personally, I've just dumped 'em as "damaged goods".

Russ · January 12, 2003 11:15AM

Placid,

It cost me nothing. I paid the shipping to them, but they compensated for that with a free grading offer. They paid the shipping back.

RegistryCoin,

I think it's unrealistic the expect them to competely eliminate the possibility of it ever happening. They pump thousands upon thousands of coins through the system. Mistakes are bound to happen and the number of times is microscopic compared to grading volume.

I'm more concerned with how they react when the problem does occur, and a customer calls to have it solved. They have dramatically improved that aspect of it.

Russ, NCNE

RegistryCoin · January 12, 2003 11:18AM

I can and will agree, though there should be a way so that the problem doesn't exist, imho.

braddick · January 12, 2003 11:20AM

I'm sure it happens, but I have yet to see an ANACS coin with fingerprints. If not, what is it they do differently?

RegistryCoin · January 12, 2003 11:23AM

Probably deal with the potential problem before it happens, not after.

Placid · January 12, 2003 11:26AM

Thanks Russ, thats reasonable.

GP · January 12, 2003 11:49AM

ANACS graders probably wear gloves or finger condoms.

DHeath · January 12, 2003 11:53AM

RGL,

I've got one on my 1967 MS67 SMS Cam Jeff that I thought should have dcamed. You've seen the pics. I can't be sure the print belongs to PCGS though I didn't see it before I submitted it. It is very light.

RegistryCoin · January 12, 2003 11:54AM

Scotch Tape...anything is better than nothing.

Dog97 · January 12, 2003 11:58AM

Funny osirisMMII should mention the ever popular "booger"
I got the booger: Dunno. Might be swamp gas.

Android · January 12, 2003 12:15PM

<< As far as I know PCGS is the only grading company arrogent enough to handle raw coins without gloves. >>

NONE of the major grading companies graders use gloves. Using gloves increases the chances of dropping the coin. I agree that it probably isn't the graders doing the fingerprinting, it's the guys who slab the coins. I watched the ANACS graders at the FUN show for a good 30 minutes one day with great interest. They handled the flips and the raw coins with the expertise that a 25 year black jack dealer handles cards. Their motions were very fast, smooth and agile. Never once did I see a coin handled other than correctly by the edges. Watching them gave me a good insight to the professionalism these guys have. I'm sure the PCGS and NGC graders are equally as good with coins as the ANACS guys were.

Andy

Russ · January 13, 2003 3:05AM

Lest anyone believe that PCGS is the only grading service that has this problem, I present an example of ANACS's work:

Considering the fact that I own very few ANACS slabs, and I actually had one in the cabinet with a big fat print on it, I'd say the odds are pretty good that it isn't the only one they've ever done. I also had an NGC with the same problem, but I was cracking and dipping that one anyway, so it didn't matter.

Russ, NCNE

BlueCole · January 13, 2003 5:11AM

If anyone doesn't want their fingerprinted coins . . . . .

B.

MadMonk · January 13, 2003 5:19AM

Maybe I should have started a new thread... About five years ago, I ordered some toned coins from a national dealer. they were all fingerprinted, with ugly toning. He tried to talk me out of a return stating "that's fingerprint toning, a lot of collectors find that very desireable" Any one have an opinion?

paigowjohnny · January 13, 2003 5:30AM

<< Go here and look closely at the careless grader with his paws all over the coin he's grading. Is that something NGC wants to advertise? >>

It's probably just another dime-a-dozen proof Frankie anyway...

dakra · January 13, 2003 5:36AM

<< For the life of me, I can't figure out why pcgs doesn't address this issue. IT'S SO BASIC! >>
<They have, and they do.>

I was told by a high ranking PCGS employee that they are professionals and would never get fingerprints or other foreign matter on the coins, so why would they need to address the issue? (I'm being facetious)

After speaking with that high ranking official I sent the hair and droplets in for DNA testing and sure enough, it matched the seamen stain on Monica's dress. (Okay Now I'm Joking)

We have seen reports of this from time to time, it does happen. I don't care how carefully you hold the coin, a grader or a slabber could have a bad day, a slip of the finger and blammo.

I have seen people mention taking their prints but all they really need to do is go into their computer system and find out who did the grading and who did the slabbing. The first offense would carry a "one month cloth glove wearing" fine. The second offense would be one month KP duty in the stock room and the third incident would involve termination.

Have A Nice Day!
-Dave

braddick · January 14, 2003 1:32AM

<< Lest anyone believe that PCGS is the only grading service that has this problem, I present an example of ANACS's work:

Considering the fact that I own very few ANACS slabs, and I actually had one in the cabinet with a big fat print on it, I'd say the odds are pretty good that it isn't the only one they've ever done. I also had an NGC with the same problem, but I was cracking and dipping that one anyway, so it didn't matter. Russ, NCNE >>

Your example only goes to prove ANACS will GRADE a coin with a fingerprint- NOT that they themselves caused it. In fact, seeing the coin has the low grade of PR65 (for a Modern) tells me the Kennedy probably had that issue when submitted.

paigowjohnny · January 14, 2003 1:44AM

Okay...call me naive....how could ANY grading service give a 60+ grade to anything with a fingerprint ??? ( Assuming the coin came in with the print and not fat fingered at the service). A fingerprint equals circulation to me just as much as "cabinet friction"

kaleidoscopic · January 14, 2003 1:45AM

I feel lucky. I have submitted almost 200 coins and haven't had a problem like that. I can't imagine that SOME precautions aren't being taken by PCGS.

PCGS can say what they want, but to chance something to happen, it will over time. If they feel their employees can handle coins impeccably, all the time, why does this occur?

Sorry to hear of your disappointments. Hope they make them right.

Kscope

I'm the newest and not-so-proud member of the PCGS Fingerprint Club

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