Another scam thwarted...

Outhaul

For those interested, here's a link to the original thread:

Buffalo Dollar???

and a link to the auction.

Linky

Last night I e-mailed the seller to let them know that was notifying eBay SafeHarbor. Today all bids are canceled and auction was ended early due to an "Error in the listing"...Yeah... like there was not one word of truth in it?

Anyway, I know that a couple of others did the same. Don't get me wrong, people should know what they're bidding on, but to blatantly misrepresent an item is criminal. Some poor sucker had a $68.00+ bid cancelled in the process. Could you imagine thinking you just got this "Buffalo Silver Dollar" at a bargain price only to find out it's worth about a buck and it's a piece of junk?

Cheers,

Bob

theRiddler

"A nice catch and now time for a test,
Was this a DCAMFranklin auction, trying to scam the rest?"

coppercoins

Good going Outhaul!

And yes, I didn't notice it before, but the title of the auction is a complete lie. If he had listed it as a "2003 Buffalo Proof" then there would be no technical fraud, but sticking the word "Dollar" in there made it a technical case of fraud. The piece does not include the word "Dollar" on it, as ONLY the REAL McCoy says "Dollar"....let alone the fact that they look nicer, are made of silver (and state so on the coin), and were all minted in a single year....not this year.

Russ

EXCELLENT!



<< <i>We believe there is confussion on this being a US minted coin >>



Translation: We got caught.

Russ, NCNE

baccaruda

of course i agree it was blatant misrepresentation and that's a good catch but saying that it's worthless and it's a piece of junk would also apply to the "official" buffalo dollar.

they're the same size, weight, metal comp, design. intrinsically, they have exactly the same value. the only difference is one was made at the "official" mint and one was not.

kind of like a $3 t-shirt that someone slaps a 50¢ "tommy hilfiger" patch on and sells for $45. it's all in the perception.

MadMarty

As Airplanenut would say "Cool!"

mr1931S

some misrepresentations by a seller come from plain ignorance about what they're selling...
ignorance happens...

the biggest problem i see with this auction was in representing the item as a product of the U.S. mint...but i would give them the benefit of the doubt as far as "intent"...

i've seen many auctions by high volume sellers where their coins,from the images,appear to be consistently over-graded..."intent" there is a perpetually open question...

coppercoins

<< <i>they're the same size, weight, metal comp, design >>



I disagree. The token discussed in this thread is an obvious knock-off with a rather crude representation of the design. Although the buffalo dollar isn't a whole lot better, it still is somewhat decent in appearance. As to their value, you can't compare a silver round minted in the gagillions with no control to a coin minted by the US mint with a specific mintage and a single year of issue. They are completely different animals, even though they weigh the same amount and are made of the same metal. One took congressional approval and strict control, the other took a bit of money, some decent equipment, and a bunch of melted silver bars - and could very well be minted for the next ten years straight (or until they quit selling).

The weight may be the same, but I highly doubt the token discussed in this thread is completely fine silver. It otherwise wouldn't read "clad" which always represents the sandwiching together of different kinds of metal. The same company uses the same wording in advertising their "1933 double eagle proof", a "gold clad" token offered at $19.95. You think those are really gold?

As a side note, notice the next time you see the gold proof commercial on TV....they hide the date area on the real $20 gold with wording while they explain to you that "this coin" is the rarest of them all...it's a common date bagmarked $20 coin, NOT the "rarest of them all".

Outhaul

Hey baccaruda...

Read the auction carefully. You'll see that the composition is .999 fine silver clad base.


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Twowood

Thank goodness there are guys like you around running defence for guys like me! Twowood

coppercoins

<< <i>Read the auction carefully. You'll see that the composition is .999 fine silver clad base. >>



Let alone another important detail....the token fails to state that it is "1 ounce .999 fine silver" as anyone minting rounds would have on their piece. If these things were actually silver, I would think it would definately benefit them to state so on their token not only to give credence to the metallic composition of the piece, but also to better copy the real thing which does state on the coin that it is silver.

Chance that it's a solid silver piece....0%

baccaruda

actually i barely read the auction at all because i've seen sellers do this constantly. i was assuming it was simply a silver round.

whether or not the design is attractive is highly subjective matter, limited mintage is also not a hard attribute.

for example i would never pay a high price for a rare date when i can get the most common date in beautiful condition at a tiny fraction of the cost and the only difference is a barely noticeable number at the bottom of the coin. a ford taurus is anything but uncommon, would it be a better car if there were less of them?

i still suggest the only intrinsic difference (assuming it to be .999 silver which we know it isn't now) between the 2 coins is that one was made by the "official" mint and the other wasn't, leading to a market difference of $6 and $120.

i guess my argument is that you can get the same satisfaction from the $6 coin as you can from the $120 coin, assuming you don't know which one the U.S. mint endorses.

coppercoins

Barracuda - Fully understood, and for your purposes that's fine. But as for market value there is a very important difference between knock-off silver rounds and coins minted by the government. That's the issue here, personal things aside. I personally find the buffalo dollar commemorative a very unattractive rip-off copy of a nice nickel design and wouldn't pay $6 for one, much less $120 - but that wasn't the issue here. To me even the ones officially condoned and made by the mint are junk...but that's just me. We're working here to educate others in what they want to collect, and if a person wants to collect the buffalo dollar, that's their business. They asked whether this knock-off was the "real thing", and we are working to educate them as to how to detect the real and the knock-off. My personal opinion of the buffalo dollar is wholly unimportant, as is yours in this case alone. If we were asked whether we thought it had any real value, that would be the time to chime in and knock it down.

baccaruda

all subjectivity aside,

yes, the seller misrepresented a $6 market coin as a $120 market coin.