A fingerprint issue on coins

stman

I don't do very well on well thought out or sophisticated threads but will just be myself here. FC57 coins brought up some good points to help determine a coins originality. But I thought I might bring up the fingerprint issue. I was wondering how people here felt about a print helping to attest to the originality of a coin. I've heard some people say that indeed a print will determine for them. Myself, I feel it can help be a determining factor but in no way is foolproof. I know these subjects can go forever but thought this issue might be important. Also I'm sure a coin doctor could put their print on a coin and go from there.

I will point out one thing that came up for me. I was about to buy a coin from a dealer
that I feel good about. Actually this person is a member here and in no way am I knocking this person. The coin was album toned and I trusted this person so I asked if in their opinion there was any question to the originality of this piece. I asked this when we were talking about it before I bought it.

Dealer said not any question at all because it had a very light old print and that print is what attests to the originality of the coin. While I fully understand what was meant being someone got their print on the coin by pushing it into an album, IMO that is not a full determining factor. And the very light old print isn't in the toning of the coin.

Now let me mention I have no problem with the coin and there is no question in my mind the coin is original, but the print theory isn't what did it for me.

I would be most interested on how people here feel about this issue and also feel all of this kind of information can be helpful to all.

If you read all this, I thank you and look forward to your opinions.

greghansen

Interesting twist...and not a surface authentication issue I had previously thought about or had suggested to me. My gut reaction is...I'm skeptical that traces of a print are any type of assurance of surface originality. What I am impressed with is the salesmanship of a fellow member who had the good sense to bring up this matter in response to an inquiry about originality of surface. If my employees were as creative thinkers as that, I could retire tomorrow!

Russ

I don't know if a print means the coin is original, but it might mean that it was in at PCGS for grading at some point.

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1

stman,

A coin might have an "original" print on it but someone could add toning to such a coin, just as they could to a coin without a print. If you're speaking of a coin which has only an area of toning from a print and nothing more, that might be a different story. Even then, other portions of the surfaces might not be original - the coin might have been dipped, had some substance added to the surfaces, etc.

stman

Coinguy1, I agree with your statements and that is kind of what I was trying to get across. Being just because there is a print doesn't mean toning could not be added.

I have a question..... You know how when a print has somewhat toned over you can see the lines and such due to the oils?

Do you feel a print can tone over while still seeing the faint lines, but the toning not mottled looking or wispy?

coinguy1

stman,

Good question about prints toning over. Usually when a print tones over, it still appears as you described it. There must be instances where the toning becomes deep enough to make the print look smoother. But, if so, my guess is, it's only because the lines, print, wispy appearance etc. aren't as visible under the heavier toning.

BillJones

I don't care for any coins with figure prints, whether they were made 1903 or 2003, it makes no difference. I guess it dates back to signs of human handling and intentional marking. If an mark looks to be at random and from another coin in a bag, it gets judged on its location and severity. If looks like someone put it there intentionally, its significance and negative affect upon value are much higher.

stman

Thanks for your input so far. I'd like to mention I hate prints on coins and really find the prints on toned coins where it looks like a big mottled mess very unattractive, and will usually pass on a coin like this.

The coin I mentioned above has a very light hardly noticible faint print that you have to look for. And since it was a coin I liked that doesn't come around often I chose to keep it. Mainly because it wasn't in the toning and distractive.

But I have noticed on classic toned coins it can be tough to find one with original toning and not some kind of print line on the coin.

michael

for me it all depends
i do not like fingerprinted coins in general

but i guess there are excpetions
where sigfht seen the coin is really nice and the fingerprint not thart noticeable i guess it depends on the overall eyem appeal and if it is noticeable or not

i guess on a really superb toned original coin where the fingerprint was light and is not distracting and hardly noticeable and toned over and for some they would not even notice it then for me sight seen it might be okie

case by case basis

sincerely michael

BillJones

The trouble with fingerprints is that they can get worse. If it's a big juicy one will lots of oil, it can get darker as time goes on.

That's why collectors get so angry with PCSG over fingerprints. There's no excuse for a professional grading service to mishandle coins like that. At the least they should fix the problem free of charge before it gets worse. If it has gotten worse, they should conpensate for it. Why can't the people who put the coins in the holders were gloves? Why can't the graders handle coins by the edges like they should or wear gloves. When it involves collectables that are worth thousands of dollars, what excuse do they have?

berylcoin

Based on what I've read (mostly over the last several years on these boards), I wouldn't think of prints as a "sign of originality" because in many instances the can't be easily dipped off. The fingerprint on the coin might be old and original, but that doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the coin is.

BC

Dog97

A print attests to the originality??????????
If you doubt the originality of any of your coin just send them to me and I'll put a big fat greasy fingerprint on them to make them original again.
The dealer was just telling you in a nice way that it was a mishandled damaged coin and you really didn't want it.