An example of why NTC is even worse than ACG.

Russ

This coin is in a PR68 holder. Even ACG isn't this blatantly inept. Of course, ACG is also guilty of insider grading with their company founder selling on eBay. OH WAIT! NTC does exactly the same thing!

It's a battle royale for who will be crowned King Of Sleaze.

Note: The above is the opinion of the author and any similarities to real individuals, living or dead, is purely intentional.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs

Maybe it is just attractive toning?

Placid

Maybe its on the holder?
Why are you looking at that junk anyway?

Russ

Placid,

That ain't on the holder. I look at every 1964 proof Kennedy auction. In this case, the fact that it's an AH isn't attributed on the holder. I saw the obverse scan first and since the auction is starting cheap I was all ready to add it to my snipe list - until I scrolled down and saw the reverse.

Russ, NCNE

greghansen

Reminds me of the old cheerleader refrain:

U-G-L-Y
You aint got no alibi,
Your ugly,
heh,heh,heh,
Your ugly!!!

wingedliberty

At the Clearwater FL show this Saturday, alot of their garbage was seen. I must have seen
at least four dozen of their slabs. Mostly overgraded garbage. They share the throne with ACG for
kings of crap.


Brian.

Russ

Greg,

That was one tough school you attended.

Russ, NCNE

PhillyJoe

Let's see, Accugrade knows they are the world's worst grading company; Russ claims NTC is actually worse which would make accugrade second worst ,which is a negative comment about accugrade which means I get a $500 reward.

Joe

dorkkarl

bah, that ain't nothing that a little ajax & a clean rag can't fix.

K S

crito

Looks like it changed in the holder to me, probably used the Russ dipping method

LincolnCentMan

...well, it could have went bad in the holder also... I've seen PCGS PR70's that were hazy with a few spots. That's why I dont do proofs... too darn fragile.

David

Russ

<< <i>Looks like it changed in the holder to me, probably used the Russ dipping method. >>



No coin I've ever dipped has developed spotting while in the holder. And, the one above did not turn in the holder. That's a typical milk spot that develops while sealed in the mint celo, not the type that emerges after a bad dip.

Russ, NCNE

crito

I like the color. So original, in a market flooded with "enhanced" red garbage, that "stupid" money may be in order Originality trumps eye appeal in my book (well, for copper anyways...)

Oh, well, I'm sorry then Russ. Must have been all those posts you made about haze developing in transit, and your flip experiments, that led me to believe you've encountered this problem before. Sometimes it takes a year or two for them to turn, so perhaps you still will. And thanks for explaining what a milk spot is, I'll write that down for future reference

Russ

<< <i>Must have been all those posts you made about haze developing in transit, and your flip experiments >>



The haze had nothing to do with dipping. In point of fact, dipped coins are far less likely to develop the problem than undipped - that was also part of my experimentation. The haze was caused by cheap vinyl based flips and the problem has been completely eliminated by switching to Saflips.



<< <i>Sometimes it takes a year or two for them to turn, so perhaps you still will. >>



My earliest dipped and slabbed coins are from April of last year. None of them show even the faintest signs of problems developing. Properly done, a dipped coin will never develop a problem.

And, again, that huge milk spot on the reverse of this coin was not a result of a bad dip anyway.

Russ, NCNE

crito

In point of fact, dipped coins are far less likely to develop the problem than undipped

A coin becomes less reactive over time as it develops a "skin". Dipping strips that skin off. A dipped coin is more likely to develop problems.

And, again, that huge milk spot on the reverse of this coin was not a result of a bad dip anyway.

And again, the haze is clearly the result of a bad rinse. Some maybe from planchet washing, but the stuff that looks like it "floats" over Kennedy's face isn't a milk spot.

jom

<< <i>Of course, ACG is also guilty of insider grading with their company founder selling on eBay >>



I hope there is more evidence than that to claim insider grading. PCGS's owner sells coins too, does that mean he has insider grading?

Just thought I'd point that out...

jom

mr1931S

i once owned a Peace dollar that turned in the holder...i bought this coin bright and white but milky white areas showed up on the coin within 6 months of my buying it in it's PCGS holder...

initially,i concluded that the coin had been dipped,rinsed carelessly,encapsulated and then was sold to me...however,

it's possible that some coins may be almost impossible to carefully dip and rinse so the coin will stay evenly bright for a long time because of the chemical state of the surface under the outer skin...in other words,even after dipping,a coin may have areas that are not laid bare but instead have an unremovable by standard dipping solution uneven distribution of planchet preparation chemicals used by the mint that remained even after rinsing or possibly the mint chemicals have reacted with the coin's metal itself and no amount of dipping will ever be able to alter this
"permanance"...consumer can carefully dip and rinse such a coin and temporarily get what appears to be satisfactory results but eventually and inevitably a chemical reaction occurs that is seen as off-color spots (typically,milky areas on silver coins) surrounded by brilliance...

RGL

Gads, that JFK is a dawg ... Just received the first NTC coin I ever bought, a 1942 Type 1 Jeff graded PR-66. Flashy enough and decent surfaces, but it's only a 65 at PCGS given a jaw ding. I figured as much in bidding on it, so I am not crying over my $39, still a decent enough buy even at 65.

coinkat

Proof coins should just be left alone unless there are issues with improper storage resulting in the exposure to PVC.

DHeath

Crito,

Dip residue usually eminates from the base of the devices and tends not to flow over them. Usually, the discoloration grows to the field. Most amateur dippers tend to remove the moisture from the flat areas, and leave moisture in the crevices. The coin pictured appears to have a large spot growing over the motto, stars, and rays on the reverse. Now, I'll return you to your criticism of Russ and his dipping threads.

Bear

At ease disease, there appears to be a fungus among us!

NumisEd

I have seen this level of senseless grading at every grading service. It's really a matter of how consistently incompetent each service is......kinda like the lesser of 14 evils (or more like 178 according to Conder).

braddick

Just a question to throw out there: If attractive toning shouldn't raise the technical grade of a coin why would UNattractive toning decrease it?

DHeath

Braddick,

That's a pretty good paradox. I think it depends on how NTC defines the grade. PCGS mentions toning in their grading definition. PR67 is the highest grade a coin with uneven toning or minor spotting can achieve. I think your question deserves a thread though. Do we really want "market grading" downgrades based on appearance?