I have a toning question

stman

When trying to determine if the toning and color on a coin are original..... Do you look at the bag marks, cuts and abrasions to see if they are filled in with the tone? Or maybe I should say, do you feel they should be filled in or not? Just curious if people use this kind of obsevation as one of the many things to look for on an original toned coin. And I do understand it can vary on a coin to coin basis.

I would be most interested in any replies.

eagle7

No simple answer here stman. Usually original toning occurs after the bag marks are on the coin. Some great info on AT and lots of other tricks such as painting(yes painting frost on MSD's) you can find in the VAM book 4th edition available at the ANA library or online. Also known as the comprehensive catalogue of Morgan and Peace silver dollars. Lots of useful info for other coin types also as there are a few chapters in this rather large volume dedicated to counterfeiting, AT and cleaning. How to spot etc. Great info on grading also. Very good book!

kaleidoscopic

Stman, something with original will have the marks toned, if the toning has reached the marks.
There are a couple of sites that I've seen which show different types of toning. To begin with, its best if you have the coin in hand to look at. I recommend a good loupe. Your toning shouldn't have an artificial appearance to it.
Does it appear to have had some chemical applied to it? Splotches like there was evidence of sprinkling, etc. Are the colors unlikely to be on this coin. What type of storage. Where. Laid out in the sun.
Things like that can affect toning onto coins.
I'll see if I can find that site. If you know that a coin is originally
toned, look how it sits on the surface. If partially covered look at the seams of the toning and how it blends into the surface. No very distinct lines of demarcation, except for wrapper folds, and comemmative tab type of toning. Textile, or bag looks like you can see a pattern of the weave.
Hope this helps your question. Kscope

stman

Eagle7, I understand there is no simple answer to my question. I am only curious if people take into consideration these things I've mentioned.

BTW... Thanks for the info on the books you provided.

eagle7

Stman, sorry for the way I started that, I didnt mean to be flip, it was more of a thought in my own mind as I thought of the question of AT itself.
1. Yes, the toning will cover the bagmarks as kscope has described. Other considerations are:
2. How was the coin packaged originally.
3. Is the coin evenly colored on both sides with the exact same toning? This can be a sign of AT
4. Does the coin look like other's of the same type with toning.
5. Does the toning extend into the rims or denticles and if so, what does it look like there?
Lots of other questions which slip my mind at the moment.

Dog97

It can go either way stman. Since the coins were subject to packaging and shipping & handling THEN sat in place for a long time usually the marks are toned over. However to a lesser degree they were also subject to handling AFTER they had been sitting & toning for a while so you see coins with the tone ticked & scuffed off.
When I see a coin without any ticks & scuffs at all at all breaking the tone it makes me wonder if they hadn't been "fixed" because they still had to travel from the vaults of the Treasury to wherever they are now and 60 lb bags with a 1,000 silver dollars in them are not the best means of preventing rub & scuffs.

stman

Dog, good point saying they could be toned while sitting, then scuffed later resulting in the marks not filling in with the tone.