Can someone explain what the sentence starting after "See Photo" means?
Says note: This coins was dipped in MS-70 and cracked out of an MS 66 "RB" What exactly does this mean? How can it go from a RB to RED. I note it's not slabbed.
I'm not sure about the dipping, but I have to ask this question: Why do people insist on photographing coins without taking them out of the 2X2??? Are staples so expensive that you can't waste 2 or 3? If there's something on the plastic of the 2X2 and a bidder thinks it may be on the coin, doesn't that justify the extra 30 seconds it takes to put it in a new 2X2 after the picture?
The seller is apparently offering the coin uncertified and giving his opinion that it is RD, though PCGS had supposedly called it RB. If it were even a PCGS MS65RD, it would be worth more than his "buy it now" price. That, to me, means he is not confident that PCGS would grade it RD the next time around either. I would steer clear of it, as I would almost any uncertified coin supposedly worth hundreds of dollars.
"MS70" that the seller refers to, is a solution that can remove grime, etc. from coins and brighten them, if I remember correctly.
Mark, woud PCGS even grade this coin? Is it not now cleaned? Or does MS 70 dipping stuff leave no clues? In addtion why would anyone remove this coin from a 66 RB slab to dip it? What was the incentive to do this?
Ogden - I have collected Lincoln cents more aggressively than any other collector. I have never seen nor heard of ANY 1912 d graded as ms 66 r/b at PCGS I have pop reports dating back to 1989.IMHO this seller is so full of it.............
ms 70 will turn copper a purple color most of the time.Any knowledgeable collector knows you DO NOT DIP COPPER.
I have to go along with Stewart on this one.That coin wasn't dipped in MS70.The color would have changed.I seriously doubt if it was in a PCGS MS66 holder either.It is hard to tell with that pic.Most who collect copper coins knows that at least 75% of the grade is luster.You can't tell from that pic,how much luster is there.
MS-70 will actually cause a red or red-brown coin to become more brown.I have used it with mixed results on red-brown and brown copper.PCGS is very sharp on picking up any "enhancements",which is understandable given their guarantee on copper. MS-70 is not harsh like coin dips.However,it can and usually will alter the color of copper,and to a lesser degree,silver and nickel,despite the manufacturers claim to the contrary.
A dealer once asked me if I noticed any three-legged buffalos on the bourse,to which I replied,"...no,but I saw alot of two-legged jackasses..."
I contacted the seller and he told me he does have the old 66RB insert and that a number of coins like that do not show on the PCGS Population Report. I don't know him but I believe him, as I know of other coins for which there are grading labels but which do not show up on the pop reports. And, the fact that it was in a 66RB holder wouldn't necessarily make it worth what he's asking, so there's no real incentive to make up a story like that.
I still wouldn't recommend buying it just because of that. But I wanted to at least present the seller's side, since he has been branded as being "full of it" by at least one person in this thread.
Edited above to "full of it" instead of "a liar" out of fairness to the person who made the remark.
I DID NOT brand him a liar.Please do not use words that I did not use.Why don't you call him up and tell him to post the insert or at least the insert number. In your opinion is a raw wishy washy dipped redish coin worth MORE than a PCGS slabbed pop 1 ms 66 r/b ?
If there's a question about the coin being graded by PCGS email the seller and get the cert number. There's a link to verify PCGS cert numbers on their home page.
I don't know if the seller's story about having the PCGS insert is true or not, but to me its not relevant. Even if he does have the original PCGS insert, I think the seller is saying that the coin was removed from that holder and susequently dipped in an effort to convert an RB into a RD.
To me, the color looks like it has been dipped in something.
Unless this coin is a fabulous bargain I think I'd run the other way. Actually, I would run the other way in either case, but thats just me.
Stewart, do you have a guilty conscience? I didn't say anything about YOUR having called him a liar, did I?
However, if I had, would I have been incorrect, based on your quote "I have never seen nor heard of ANY 1912 d graded as ms 66 r/b at PCGS I have pop reports dating back to 1989.IMHO this seller is so full of it............."
Also, you asked "In your opinion is a raw wishy washy dipped redish coin worth MORE than a PCGS slabbed pop 1 ms 66 r/b ?"
My answer would be no and I have already advised against purchase of this raw coin and most any other that is in this price range. Happy new year, by the way.
Its not that I have a guilty conscience but rather that it is only myself that said the sellers claims were questionable.
Are you aware that recently a 1912 d in PCGS ms 66 red sold for well over $20,000.Are you also aware that the coin was offered by PINNACLE RARETIES as well as myself ?
In ms 65 red IMHO it is a $1,000 coin.As a 66 r/b depending on the amount of red the value should be over $1,000
In your opinion,do you think the seller got greedy and thought he could dip the coin and get it to grade red but instead it came back in a body bag?
Stewart, I was not aware of the MS66RD 1912-D or its offering price - see how little I know about this stuff, compared to you?
I really have no idea what happened with the coin which is the subject of this thread. Perhaps the seller thought it was a RD at the time it resided in an RB holder?
Out of fairness to you (or whomever I might have been referring to), I will edit my other post and change it from "liar" to "full of it". See you at FUN.
Comments
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
The seller is apparently offering the coin uncertified and giving his opinion that it is RD, though PCGS had supposedly called it RB. If it were even a PCGS MS65RD, it would be worth more than his "buy it now" price. That, to me, means he is not confident that PCGS would grade it RD the next time around either. I would steer clear of it, as I would almost any uncertified coin supposedly worth hundreds of dollars.
"MS70" that the seller refers to, is a solution that can remove grime, etc. from coins and brighten them, if I remember correctly.
Thanks
Ogden
Kscope
Ogden - I have collected Lincoln cents more aggressively than any other collector. I have never seen nor heard of ANY 1912 d graded as ms 66 r/b at PCGS I have pop reports dating back to 1989.IMHO this seller is so full of it.............
ms 70 will turn copper a purple color most of the time.Any knowledgeable collector knows you DO NOT DIP COPPER.
Stewart
Jeremy
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
MS-70 is not harsh like coin dips.However,it can and usually will alter the color of copper,and to a lesser degree,silver and nickel,despite the manufacturers claim to the contrary.
Ogden
I contacted the seller and he told me he does have the old 66RB insert and that a number of coins like that do not show on the PCGS Population Report. I don't know him but I believe him, as I know of other coins for which there are grading labels but which do not show up on the pop reports. And, the fact that it was in a 66RB holder wouldn't necessarily make it worth what he's asking, so there's no real incentive to make up a story like that.
I still wouldn't recommend buying it just because of that. But I wanted to at least present the seller's side, since he has been branded as being "full of it" by at least one person in this thread.
Edited above to "full of it" instead of "a liar" out of fairness to the person who made the remark.
Mark,
I DID NOT brand him a liar.Please do not use words that I did not use.Why don't you call him up and tell him to post the insert or at least the insert number.
In your opinion is a raw wishy washy dipped redish coin worth MORE than a PCGS slabbed pop 1 ms 66 r/b ?
Stewart
Edited to add link to Cert Verification
Quess you had the same idea Stewart.
To me, the color looks like it has been dipped in something.
Unless this coin is a fabulous bargain I think I'd run the other way. Actually, I would run the other way in either case, but thats just me.
However, if I had, would I have been incorrect, based on your quote "I have never seen nor heard of ANY 1912 d graded as ms 66 r/b at PCGS I have pop reports dating back to 1989.IMHO this seller is so full of it............."
Also, you asked "In your opinion is a raw wishy washy dipped redish coin worth MORE than a PCGS slabbed pop 1 ms 66 r/b ?"
My answer would be no and I have already advised against purchase of this raw coin and most any other that is in this price range. Happy new year, by the way.
Mark - A Happy New Year to you also
Its not that I have a guilty conscience but rather that it is only myself that said the sellers claims were questionable.
Are you aware that recently a 1912 d in PCGS ms 66 red sold for well over $20,000.Are you also aware that the coin was offered by PINNACLE RARETIES as well as myself ?
In ms 65 red IMHO it is a $1,000 coin.As a 66 r/b depending on the amount of red the value should be over $1,000
In your opinion,do you think the seller got greedy and thought he could dip the coin and get it to grade red but instead it came back in a body bag?
Stewart
I really have no idea what happened with the coin which is the subject of this thread. Perhaps the seller thought it was a RD at the time it resided in an RB holder?
Out of fairness to you (or whomever I might have been referring to), I will edit my other post and change it from "liar" to "full of it".