coin dippers [don't read this] people who hate coin dippers read this

barberlover · January 3, 2003 5:20AM

what should be the punishment for dipping white a beautiful rare original type coin?

NumisEd · January 3, 2003 5:21AM

I think the dipper should be dipped in a big tub of dip.

Russ · January 3, 2003 5:22AM

There should be punishment for an individual doing with their private property as they please?

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin · January 3, 2003 5:28AM

30 years ago, dipping was the equivalent to using the kitchen's Brillo pad. One method of cleaning was the same as the other. All hated. Somehow, the big submission dealers were able to convince PCGS & NGC to allow the dipping and retain a high grade. And here we are! A dipping bowl in every hobby room.

coppercoins · January 3, 2003 5:44AM

There are two ways to dip a coin...the right way and the wrong way. If it is done properly, there is no harm done to the coin, if the coin needed it in the first place. Selecting the proper candidates for a dip and doing the process with care for the piece is the key.

BIGDAVE · January 3, 2003 5:45AM

If the US mint had intended coins to Be Ugly, They would have minted them that way.Dippers are doing a service ,making the coins Beautiful the way they were minted.

Tonning is corrosion ugh!!!

LOOK at my auctions all clean white Coins.

BigDipper · January 3, 2003 5:57AM

eagle7 · January 3, 2003 6:01AM

All of us take a bath every day but we dont scrub and rub hard enough to remove our skin. Same with a coin. If I have a modern proof which I want to look like it did when it came from the mint and I dont take the skin off it, and its mine and im pleased with it then I dont see a problem with it. Most of the older coins are too darkly toned to dip, you would take the skin off and that would kill the coin just like it would us.

barberlover · January 3, 2003 6:09AM

the responce by copper coins is honost, but is exactley why i hate the dipping process even if done well. a good reason why not is the very last person who posted. look at the difference in price of full red copper from early half cents and large cents thru the 1920's lincoln cents for the grade in 65 or better in brown, red and brown, and full red.
if the dipping is done well and people slab dipped copper oins that were red and brown or even brown before the dipping, but now that the grading services admit to doing this. do you as the net purchaser of the coin payig full red money for it have gotton a good deal ? or do you feel that the person who had the grading service help in this process, then returned the coin to the dealer who then sold it to you as full red ripped you off. anacs graes all coins, but if they feel a cin has been cleaned they say so on the holder. there used to b a time when n.g.c. and .c.g.s. refused to slab a dipped coin now from what i here they actually participate in it at the request of there submitters. that maybe good for the submitter, but not necessarily for the next purchaser of the coin after the deed [not put on the holder] is done!

berrydingle · January 3, 2003 6:16AM

the same punishment as for those that attempt to artificialy tone coins

barberlover · January 3, 2003 6:21AM

does that mean i can have the same "experts" who dipp the coims "the right way, dip my mint state 66 1837 large cent in p.c.g.s. 66 bown worth somewhere between 1200-1400 then be reholdered at 66 red and then be wrth over 5000?

MacCoin · January 3, 2003 6:22AM

they're my coins if I want to dip them I will. but this is American you don't have to dip yours

eagle7 · January 3, 2003 6:32AM

Hey barberlover, you dont ever have to worry about me dipping a copper coin. I didnt even seriously consider that thought, seeing as how your handle is barberlover which is not a copper coin. Copper should be left alone or sent to a serious chemist with a phd. Also kind of hard to dip a copper coin white.

barberlover · January 3, 2003 6:36AM

if dipping is now an accepted practice at the major grading services, then they should say so on the holders of there new submissions like; 65 red dipped or proof 67 dc dipped or mint state 66 dipped right on the holders!!!!

berrydingle · January 3, 2003 6:37AM

you tell em mac

Russ · January 3, 2003 6:39AM

<< <i>if dipping is now an accepted practice at the major grading services, then they should say so on the holders >>

That statement mistakenly assumes that the graders can always tell when a coin has been dipped.

Russ, NCNE

barberlover · January 3, 2003 6:55AM

russ, i saw a t.v. commercial last year advertising some kind of a tarnish and stain remover for cleaning heavily tarnished metal fixtures [can't remember the name of the stuff, first they showed how easily it cleaned different types of metal surfaces without scrubbing, but then do demonstraight its pure cleaning power they dipped a heavily tarnished lincoln cent in it and it looked new again

Russ · January 3, 2003 7:01AM

barberlover,

Copper is a completely different animal. I'd be willing to bet that the coin in the commercial would very quickly turn to crap, and the cleaning would be easily detected by an experienced copper person.

There are very few people who even attempt copper. I don't know if it can even be done successfully.

Russ, NCNE

clackamas · January 3, 2003 7:09AM

I seriously doubt you can get a dipped copper past NGC, ANACS or PCGS.

barberlover · January 3, 2003 7:16AM

an open invatation to homerunhall. what if any is your position on slabbing dipped coins now versus your position on dipped coins when p.c.g.s. first started slabbing in the mid 80's. please let us hear your side of things. thanks, barberlover

Russ · January 3, 2003 7:24AM

David Hall already answered the question.

Russ, NCNE

stman · January 3, 2003 7:49AM

I am a person who likes original surfaces on coins. It has not always been this way, as it took years for me to appreciate this.

I usually stay out of these kind of threads but can't hold back on this one. Even though I don't agree with dipping or "conservation" I try not to knock it. As I don't appreciate when people knock toning and call it ugly and tarnish. And to knock what other folks like to collect or what they do to what they collect imo is very rude.

And to start threads like this one is just looking to stir things up around here. My intent of my reply is not to stir things up, but just don't see why a new member that seems to like coins and has some good input needs to do this.

Catch22 · January 3, 2003 9:03AM

Most people suggest that if you can tell a coin has been cleaned, it HAS been cleaned. I tend to agree with this although, as has been mentioned many times, the rare coin market is just about the only place where improving on the appearance or conserving the item is viewed as damaging. Fine works of art are restored, rare books are restored, antiques are restored etc. etc.....

As with grading, consistency and agreement within the industry continues to be a major issue. I had hoped we would have made progress in these areas, but the same issues that were being discussed in 1980 are still being debated today. Electronic scanning of coins and the subsequent assignment of a grade is being played around with and will likely be attempted by one of the grading services as technological advances make it possible.

barberlover · January 3, 2003 9:26AM

my intent was certainley to provoke thought filled comment, but calling me very rude for doing so is in my opionon in itself very rude. if you disagree with my ideas of originality, thats fine, maybe you could try a little harder to recognize the difference between a little good humured ribbing ment to stir up discussion of an important matter and accusing someone you don't know of trying to 'stir up trouble' or being rude. i think a healthy dose of your own suggestion's are in order of not trying to stir up trouble or being rude. one more thing sir; LIGHTEN UP!!!

stman · January 3, 2003 10:18AM

Barberlover, If I am wrong in my assumption than I am sorry for that.
BTW, I notice you like to use the CAPS keys.

CLASSICS · January 3, 2003 10:49AM

when you dip a coin you remove the natural surface of the coin, be it white or toned. it affects the surface. however next time you go to a major show, look at all the white coins you can. you will notice many of them look dead, without any life to then. that is because the natural surface luster which is created by the radial lines from striking process has been altered.

Blade · January 3, 2003 11:14AM

My personal view is I have no problem with dipping as long as it seems realistic. Anything graded below AU58 that is dipped looks wrong. I have some very original coins but I also appreciate a masterful effort that brings a coin's appearance back to original mint luster.

BigDipper · January 3, 2003 11:50AM

i shouldn't be reading this, but i'll put in my two cents. I collect mostly early commems and i have dipped almost every one of 'em. It doesn't damage the coin, in fact, they look much better after i dip 'em and they have all been slabbed by PCGS afterwards. I want my coins to look the same way they were when they were minted. Although i appreciate beautiful toning, most of the coins i've encountered have had ugly, dark, mottled toning which isn't pleasing to my eyes. I don't consider dipping to be "doctoring" either (maybe it is, i dunno). PCGS's Official Guide to Coin Grading and Conterfeit Detection also states (page 224) that dipping a coin may improve its grade. So if done properly, dipping isn't all that bad as some make it out to be!

stman · January 3, 2003 12:24PM

The more I think about this, and the more I see I'm not sorry for anything. I gave my opinion which I seldom do and I'm sticking with it. So flame me for my opinion I could care less. And I will not respond anymore and get caught up in this. Time will tell my friend.

oldcameoproofsguy · January 3, 2003 1:19PM

<< <i>I seriously doubt you can get a dipped copper past NGC, ANACS or PCGS. >>

I agree, I have never seen a dipped copper that would pass for RD. IMO, conserving a RD copper using mineral oil is acceptable and would easily be slabbed by any of the major services.

IMO, there are times when a dipped coin done properly can really bring the life back too a dull silver. The problem with dipping 90%silver coins is that it removes some of the outer layer of silver on the skin of the coin which increases the copper concentration. Copper being volatile, will usually turn brownish with time. A dipped silver with a very slight golden hue I feel is OK; when it really becomes brown and lifeless it is not. A poorly dipped silver will almost always turn brown and destroy the luster of the coin.

Dipping a beautifully toned coin is just plain stupid.

Blade · January 3, 2003 1:32PM

Proofs Guy - Here, here to the dipping of nice toned pieces. A lot of real beauties were lost in the 60's/70's to the white coin craze. It breaks my heart.

coppercoins · January 3, 2003 1:37PM

Definately DON'T dip copper...bad mistake unless you happen to know a lot about how to do it properly, and few do. I'll be the first to admit that I don't do it because I don't know enough about it to do it. Enough said.

What I was talking about in my original thread was regarding dipping tarnished silver...that, to me, if done correctly and to the right coins, is fine.

Mike921 · January 3, 2003 1:50PM

I don't see nothing wrong with it at all. I remember when I bought a Morgan with very heavy build up covering the whole coin making it very ugly, but it had nice details. I bought it really cheap with the intentions of dipping it to see what was hidding under all the crud. When I did, it had nice mirrored surfaces and was there for a lot more attractive and I was very pleased with it's final outcome. Would do it again, and again. Nothing like being the first to dip a coin!!!

coin dippers [don't read this] people who hate coin dippers read this

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