What's a cud? (New pic added)

Lakesammman

I guess whan a piece of the die breaks away (usually at the rim), a rim cud results. I've always thought the raised metal on the edge of the coin was the "cud". In the example of the 1857 S16 on a earlier thread, a piece is breaking away internally (in the wing) but hasn't yet fallen away from the die. It's called a retained cud.

So, guess I'm confused. Does a "cud" refer to the piece that broke off the die or is a cud the resultant raised metal on the coin? If anyone can help me with the definition, it would be appreciated.

Russ

It's similar to a turd.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Russ, NCNE

nwcs

I'll throw another wrinkle in there. We also have to differentiate between a cud and a lamination of the planchet. I haven't seen the coin in question, but if it is peeling away from the coin but still attached, then it is a hinged split.

leothelyon

Here are a few.

Leo

Catch22

a cud describes the raised metal on a coin. So, I guess it would be the lump.

wingedliberty

A "cud" , otherwise correctly known as a die break is the resulting raised metal on the coin. As a
contributor of 5 cuds to Sam Thurman and Arnie Margolis book and CUD supplement, I can
say that interior cuds are worth more on some dates and series than on others. It all depends on
the dates and series. I can also tell you that all cuds on silver dollars are rare, particularly on
Peace dollars. 19th century type coins are riddled with cuds, particullarly 3c nickels, large cents,
and related type. I often search silver dollar bins for cuds and find maybe 1/1000. Good luck.


Happy new year,
Brian.

Bulldog

Cud dat stuff out, Looks like partial Melt down to me.

Outhaul

Cud = cow puke

Sorry...just thought it needed to be said.

Cheers,

Bob

Pushkin

Come on people, lets get serious.

From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

cud (kud) n.; a mouthfull of previously swallowed food regurgitated (puked) from the first stomach of cattle and other ruminants back to the mouth, where it is chewed slowly a second time.

cud*bear (kud'ber)n.; 1. a purple dye prepared from lichens, 2. not a "forum" bear.

cud*coin (kud'koin) n. a dog of a coin with something on the rim, like my 1863 Indian Head cent that I've been trying to sell on eBay for weeks without any luck - a real cud'coin - constantly being regurgitated back to the owner.


Seriously: A cud occurs when a piece of the die breaks away (leaving a void/hole in the die). Meytal is forced into the hole during striking, leaving a positive (raised piece of metal) on the coin. :"Cud" is really slang for the results of a die break.

See "Price Guide to Mint Errors" by Alan Herbert, ISBN No. 0-609-80855-9, he goes into considerable detail about "cuds", die breaks and cracks.

mdwoods

Here is a link to a famous cud, the 1855 Knob on Ear Large cent

Cud Coin

Lakesammman

Here is a pic. of the internal cud. Looks like the cud on this speciman is about 1/2 what it will eventually become, the margins of the retained portion evident on the picture.

danglen

According to "The Error Coin Encyclopedia" by Arnie Margolis and Fred Weinberg, "a cud error will ALWAYS occur starting at the rim at some point, and extend inward on the coin's surface, and then return to the rim at another point. It can happen on obverse or reverse dies."

What you show looks more like a delamination error than a cud, at least from what I can see in the image you just posted.

Lakesammman

Thanks for the definition - gets more confusing the more I look into it! Does that reference say if the cud is the raised metal on the coin or the defect in the die??

davefperry

danglen has it right. A cud error is the result of a broken die. Retained cud happens when the broken die piece remains in the holder and full cud happens when the broken die piece slides away and leaves a raised blank spot on the edge of a coin.

Lakesammman

So what your saying is, the cud is the piece broken out of the die and the raised metal on the coin is a result of the DIE cud??

Catch22

See my previous post. A cud is the raised metal portion on the coin.

danglen

When the die breaks away, there is nothing left to prevent the metal from flowing into the void. The resulting mass of metal is the cud. When the die is unbroken, it retains the metal and only allows it to flow into the voids in the die, thus creatiuing the devices. When a portion of the three dies (which can be the obverse, reverse or the collar) breaks away, a "major die break", commonly referred to as a cud, occurs. But it ALWAYS starts and ends at the rim of the coin.

Generally speaking, a coin with a cud will have what appear to be weakly struck devices on the same side as the cud. This is a result of the void created by the major die break being filled with metal that would normally go into the voids that create the devices. The larger the die break, the weaker the resulting devices will appear.

I hope this makes it a bit easier to understand.

Pushkin

A cud occurs when a piece of the die breaks away (leaving a void/hole in the die). Metal is forced into the hole during striking, leaving a positive (raised piece of metal) on the coin. :"Cud" is really slang for the results of a die break.

See "Price Guide to Mint Errors" by Alan Herbert, ISBN No. 0-609-80855-9, he goes into considerable detail about "cuds", die breaks and die cracks, etc.