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What is Windexing???

I read some of the back and forth between a couple of members about a windexed coin being sold!? Could someone explain this, and what it does to a coin?? Thanks......
Banned for Life from The Evil Empire™!
Looking for Nationals, Large VF to AU type, 1928 Gold, and WWII Emergency notes. Also a few nice Buffalo Nickels and Morgan Dollars.
Monty...

Comments

  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭
    Cleaned with glass cleaner.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Maybe the coin doctors should use the no smear formula? Windex is basically ammonia, which from what I understand can cause a chemical reaction in silver and turn it into a blue/purple. Is that what happened here?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Hehe, I just asked somebody this question via PM. I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't know!

    Russ, NCNE
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    Jewelry cleaner has ammonia in it and sometimes someone trys it on there coins with disasterous results.It kills a coins luster faster than anything around I think.It also often tones the pieces.Not the best of solutions to wash coins in.Ouch.
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭
    It has something to do with creating or enhancing the cameo effect on a copper proof. At least that is the way I understand it. mdwoods
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    An inhaler for people who suffer from asthma also creates fake cameo effects on coins. Another thing to be watchful of. I would think that the windex could also be a brightener for the coin.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭✭
    From a recent post. The formula for windexing.



    I swore I'd leave our friend alone, and I will but for this:

    Don, you see what faith others have in you. I share the same. Let me tell you why he knew the coin had been windexed. Many years ago he taught me what windexing is:

    Take a penny and put it right in front of a bottle of windex. Hit the trigger a few times..hard, then rinse the coin in hot water and then blow dry it with a hair dryer.

    Try it, it works. It will not take of milk spots or other hard to remove material, but it does remove haze, toning etc. It also does not leave the tell tale sign like dipping on copper.

    The trick is to sell the coin or slab before it turns.

    I would suggest that every buyer of high end coins experiment with cheap versions and the cleaning "tricks" people use. You'll soon learn to recognize the sublte changes in the coin and the consistent pattern a certain technique leaves.

    Bottomline if a coin is in a holder you should not be responsible for it's deteriorization. The grading service should. I know PCGS will make this right. Most likely NGC as well.

    Stick around Don!
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    segoja, if a coin was windexed and got slabbed but hadn't turned yet, is there any way to know it had been done?

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Microscopically, I would bet it. There would be spots somewhere that would be discernible. But with a 5-10 second look, you can get a grade but may not get all the doctoring tricks. I think all collectors need to slow down a bit before purchasing and really look carefully at the coins.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭✭
    Kranky,

    It's been so long since I did that. I normally don't fool with copper because of it turning.

    The look is a slightly different than before the coin was windexed. Next show you go to spend a few bucks on some 1960's proof cents and try it. You'll see the difference, albiet very slight.

    There is no way to describe it. The few bucks you spend will save you many times over.

    Wish I had a better answer.
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • Thanks for all the responses and the how to!!
    Banned for Life from The Evil Empire™!
    Looking for Nationals, Large VF to AU type, 1928 Gold, and WWII Emergency notes. Also a few nice Buffalo Nickels and Morgan Dollars.
    Monty...
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    windexing as described is an old trick, but very effective. can be reversed. ammonia is used to "adjust" silver coins by dulling the finish to make a "cleaned" coin look "un-cleaned". can also hide breaks in the proof frost, diluted bleach works also. concentrated bleach can rapidly tone-down a "polished" or whizzed coin - can be extremely deceptive. the ammonia & bleach treatments can NOT be reversed.

    beware!

    K S
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ........this is really a nasty topic and a hard one to figure out because of the way it affects everybody from a knowledgeable collector to a novice to a grader and all the way to dealers. we want the services to give us a faster turnaround on submissions and at the same time i hear members saying these alterations are often times only able to be seen with careful scrutiny. then when the coin changes in the holder the service is expected to give the coins owner compensation. WOWZER!!! image

    gazing into my crystal ball i see coins in the future............
    gazing into my crystal ball i see coin doctors hangin' from yardarms!!!!!

    al h.image
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ammonia baths with various concentrations have been a successful way to get grime, dirt, PVC, and unfortunately sometimes original toning off a silver coin. They will also brighten up the coin in the process as the layers of scum come off. I too had never heard the word windexing before though I was well aware of the use of ammonia on silver coins.....but not copperypepperonidoodles.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    About a year ago, I floated a thread here and across the street with EVP's help, suggesting a date holdered, either in the database, or on the slab. It was my feeling then as it is now that many would scrutinize the date, particularly with regard to dipped coins to determine whether the coin was stable. I know that the services both guarantee grade and appearance, and I'm sure they also police fraudulent submitters, but I think this would be another excellent tool for the collector. JMO


    BTW - Threads like this always make me remember how the "good ole days" really were.image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I joined this forum to learn more about coins. It is nice to have this knowledge, but are the doctors picking up on this stuff, or is it safe to assume they already know this and much, much more, that we will need to watch out for. I thought if I bought it already slabbed for the most part I was safe, now I just wonder???

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • Is the coin on Russ's Icon a windexing example ?
  • I just went and tried this on a couple of circ. lincolns. A nice red and a brown one. It seemed to brighten both coins. On the brown cent, it made the normal dark grey/blue areas around the devices into an electric blue. I really can't see any obvious signs on the red cent that would give away the cleaning.

    I really still don't see how a collector would be expected to catch a trick that was missed by both a repected grading firm and a professional auction company.
    Hamsters oy! Why collect they the taco.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭✭
    Try this on proofs. The surfaces are more delicate than MS examples. They turn much quicker, and make it easier to see what is happening.

    Proper cleaning is ok. I have several silver proof halves in my personal set that I have dipped prior to slabbing. If done correctly on silver, there is no long term problem. Wouldn't want to do it repeatedly.

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    > It is nice to have this knowledge, but are the doctors picking up on this stuff, or is it safe to assume they already know this and much, much more, that we will need to watch out for. I thought if I bought it already slabbed for the most part I was safe, now I just wonder???

    I'd say most are aware of it. And there will always be a few who will try it. Unfortunately, no way to weed that element out. Still, learning the markers of a doctoring can make a big financial difference down the road. It's funny, and scary, that the more I learn the more I agree with dorkkarl about mastering numismatics independently of grading services and using them as just another opinion and environmental protection holder.

    Neil
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>are the doctors picking up on this stuff, or is it safe to assume they already know this and much, much more >>

    oh, they know.

    they know.

    K S
  • I just tried the windex and water method on a whizzed Morgan, that obviously had all the luster stripped away. Almost instantly after spraying it on there it started getting a golden tone to it almost hiding the washed out surfaces and this was just in the first few minutes. Wonder what it will be like in a few days.
    Mike
  • Segoja-

    Thanks for the tip on using proof cents. I don't have any on hand that are cruddy enough to ruin, but I'll try it as soon as I do.
    Hamsters oy! Why collect they the taco.

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