Lucy, what do you think of these Franklins?

Ogden

Lucy, since you are the expert in the Franklins, how about grading these for me. Just bought them yesterday. I didn't included the reverse because I don't think any are FL. Anyone else would also be welcome to venture grades. Thanks

Ogden

MadMarty

Again, need pictures. But, like the great Karnak, I hold the screen to my head and see.........

They look nice!!!

Ogden

Mad Marty, I know they were posted because I reviewed them after the posting. The same thing happened to another of my postings.

FC57Coins

Ogden - without the reverses it's kind of impossible to assign an accurate grade to these - even if they're not FBL's you have to look and see whether the reverse holds the grade or drops it.

Frank

Cam40

I,ll take a go at it.
Heres my grading on these,for what its worth,
1949 MS65
1950 MS64
1951 MS64
1952 MS63
1956 MS65

Just a guess really.I.m no expert on Frankies.

FC57Coins

My grades assuming the reverses are neutral:

MS64
MS64
MS64
MS63
MS64

The best of the bunch is the 49 since it has no toning - what mint are these?

Frank

Ogden

I'll say this about the reverses. They are all better than the obverses. Probably, in my opinion, a grade higher than the obverse.

Ogden.

Ogden

Frank these are all Philadelphia's. The dealer who I bought them from wrote on the flip as follows:

49-P 64-65
50-P 63
51-P 64
52-P 63
56-P 63-65

You guys were right on it.

Frank, why do you say the toning hurts? I thought toning was in, and actually PCGS may think if the toning's attractive, it may add to the grade. I think I have actually read this in the PCGS grading guide. However, I am by no means, even close to an expert on any coin.

I checked ebay for MS-65 PCGS 49 P Franklins and there doesn't appear to be much of a market there.

Are Franklins a good coin to collect? Seems even high grade Franklins aren't bringing what other MS-65 coins are in other series.

Ogden

Edited the word "said" between from and wrote in the first sentence.

FC57Coins

Ogden - in many cases the toning on Franklins is dark brown and drab, hence it tends to be a deterrent as opposed to enhancing the coin. For some reason the coins in the early part of the series tended to have this drab brown kinda coloration, and then towards the end of the series, while they were still in the paper/cardboard holders, they started getting the wonderful goldish/redish/magentaish colors that will knock your socks out. Generally the toning on 49's is drab, and fully lustrous pieces are hard to come by.

Frank

Ogden

Thanks Frank! I actually looked for toned coins when I bought all these this weekend. Still in in the learning process. I'm not sure I've got enough years left to learn all I need to know about this hobby.

Thanks again
Ogden

FC57Coins

<< <i>Are Franklins a good coin to collect? Seems even high grade Franklins aren't bringing what other MS-65 coins are in other series. >>



I'm not sure what you mean here, but I think (though granted I'm biased) that Franklins represent a great way to still get into a good series at a relatively high level with relatively little money. MS64FBL's and MS65's and even some MS66's can still be had at a very good price. The high priced items, and even then they're not THAT high priced as compared to some other series are the MS65/66 FBL's. Then you can be talking anywhere in the 6-10K range for some of the pricier coins and of course 15K+ for the illusive 53S in MS65FBL and above.

Frank

LucyBop

I think these are wonderful coins, it looks like you did very good. I would agree with them falling in the ms64 catergory... I am finding PCG's grading to be very tough at the moment and I will respectfully disagree with the Cigar smoking dog and some of the brown toning. This type of toning does seem to enhance the grade PCGs gives out. I have a local fellow Frankie collector that I hang out with and he got some decent grades on a recent submission which had this brown type of toning.... And in some years, take the 55, this type of toning seems to be in the majority. Atleast from what I have been seeing at major shows and stores.... I am looking for a ms66fbl 1955. I have had more then one chance to buy one but I really didn't dig the toning. Now I have boughten 4 raw ones pulled from original mint sets and one has toning that I like (though it isn't the greatest) and I think this gem has a shot at a 6.



<< <i>Franklins is dark brown and drab, hence it tends to be a deterrent as opposed to enhancing the coin. >>



I saw tons of ms66's and a 67 at long beach, some ms66's at a Albuquerque coin show, and a few at Tacoma, all with this type of toning.
I think PCGs realizes these type of coins come from original mint sets and if they are relatively nik free, they will grade high.

LucyBop

BTW, I think I like the 50 & 51 the best! Hopefully they are FBL.... If not, they are still nice!

FC57Coins

<< <i>I will respectfully disagree with the Cigar smoking dog and some of the brown toning. This type of toning does seem to enhance the grade PCGs gives out >>



Whilst the lovely Lady is more than welcome to disagree, what I actually said was that ugly brown toning was more of a "deterrent" to most collectors as opposed to bringing the grade down. You're absolutely right - in some cases ugly brown toning will actually hide imperfections, thereby giving a coin a higher "technical" grade. However, I will ad this. I think those days are behind us. Given the tendencies these days to market grade as opposed to grade on a technical basis, I think that the overall look of a coin is considered as well as it's technical aspects.

Frank

LucyBop

And again I disagree after seeing some very recent submissions that unfortuantely were not mine... Rats!

Fairlaneman

Disagreeing about a Bald Guy. Come on folks. Geez and I bought one of them today...a 54S. Sort of pretty but weakly struck. No slicked back hair at all on this one.

Ken

FC57Coins

<< <i>And again I disagree after seeing some very recent submissions that unfortuantely were not mine... Rats! >>



Well, that may very well be - I personally have had the opposite results with some pieces that had less than flattering toning. On the other hand, those with excellent toning tended, in my opinion to be definitely bumped up - a case in point is the half that was made into an MS67FBL by a board member - I think it was Jon, based solely on killer toning. Had that been a brown drab piece in the exact same technical condition, I will bet bottom dollar that it would not have gotten the grade it did.

Frank

LucyBop

The issue seems to be consistent grading by PCGs. At this point in time, I believe all toned Franklins in mint state condition whether drab road ugly black tar toning or the very attractive rainbow toning will grade higher then brilliant coins. I am getting ready to send in some toned Gems.. I will report my results... This may sound dumb, but I am nervous of sending them all in together, my thinking is if they give one a high grade they may get revenge on another coin... This may be silly of me, but Its what I am thinking...

FC57Coins

The issue seems to be consistent grading by PCGs. At this point in time, I believe all toned Franklins in mint state condition whether drab road ugly black tar toning or the very attractive rainbow toning will grade higher then brilliant coins. >>

If that's the case, then riddlemethis: Back in the days of yore - I bought this piece, thinking it was a pretty darned good piece, not a 67FBL as the original ACG advertised, but pretty darned good. I cracked it and it came back in a 65 holder as shown. Now - just before completing my registry set, I got bold and sent the piece in one more time thinking - it's got a shot at a 66, I had compared it to the 66's that I had and it was right there - even my dealer agreed with me. I sent it in and lo and behold - came back in a 64 holder. Lesson learned - just because it's toned, doesn't mean that you're going to get a better grade.

LucyBop

So cause you got burned once now you think your correct in your other views? Thats weak to pull up a ACG coin. I'm surprised it didn't grade ms62.

LucyBop

and the toning did help that coin it appears, if it was a brilliant ACG coin you really would have been murdered!

FC57Coins

<< <i>So cause you got burned once now you think your correct in your other views? Thats weak to pull up a ACG coin. I'm surprised it didn't grade ms62 >>



You seem to be stuck on that MS62 thing - you sure you're not just ticked at Homerunhall because YOU got burned?

LucyBop

It wasn't just the ms62 coin which made a nice gift to a fellow board member, it was a series of brilliant submissions.... Which I still prefer, but PCGs as of late seems to be kinder with the toning you call a deterrent as opposed to enhanching a coin, but then you changed up and said a deterrent to collectors......

But then again, PCGs may and probably will change their way of thinking (atleast how I perceive it to be) from week to week......

LucyBop

<< <i>you sure you're not just ticked at Homerunhall because YOU got burned? >>



Atleast I didn't buy a ACG coin??????????? They saw you coming....

Hehhehhhh!

FC57Coins

<< <i>PCGs may and probably will change their way of thinking (atleast how I perceive it to be) from week to week...... >>



That could be - but here are two more examples of exactly the oposite of what you're talking about.

This 54S was purchased in an MS64FBL holder - which I couldn't believe my eyes, but sure enough - same submission, cracked it and sent it in - boom - MS65FBL - as it should've been all along - pretty shine and all

LucyBop

GASP! Thats a good way to disarm me!!! Show me a KILLER FRANKIE!!!!!!!


NO FAIR!


HE'S CHEATING!!!!!!

FC57Coins

<< <i>Atleast I didn't buy a ACG coin??????????? They saw you coming.... >>



So you're saying that you don't believe in the old addage - buy the coin not the holder?

LucyBop

I'm still dizzy over that 54s........

I need some fresh air..........





Pant! Pant!

LucyBop

<< <i>So you're saying that you don't believe in the old addage - buy the coin not the holder? >>



He says this when I have been defending toned Frankies that are raw with the hope of a high grade in mind....
Sounds like Lucy was saying buy the coin without any holder.......

FC57Coins

<< <i>He says this when I have been defending toned Frankies that are raw with the hope of a high grade in mind.... >>



Sounds fair enough - I call a cease to all hostilities - no one is paying attention anyway! LOL

LucyBop

A flame war gone to waste!!!!! RATS!

Everyone, Frank knows his Frankies and his opinions are super!!!!!

FC57Coins

And Lucille is the fairest of them all!

DCAMFranklin

Ogden- There is nothing wrong with the Franklin prices. Just look at the tougher date beauty!


1950-D FBL

Lucy, you ought to appreciate this little beauty! Lucy, are you battling it out with a Member again?

LucyBop

The price on that 50d isn't bad......... My sure fire ms64 50d went ms63! Bah Humbug!

DCAMFranklin

I gave some serious consideration to buying that one to hold on to for awhile. That is a tough date and are rarely found that nice.

FC57Coins

It is a good price for that piece - looks like a good strike, though the one thing I wouldn't like about it is the hit on the face.

Frank