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Why Do You Think Patterns...

RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
are not as popular as regular issue pieces despite their great rarity, historical value and great beauty (of some)?
Rick Kay
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

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Comments

  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    Too hard to find, not enough move (sell) on a timely fashion, too expensive for the typical numistmatic, not really any series, and so varied and underpublicized - most people question authenticity.


    But they are so cool - when I become a multi-millionaire going to start buying some.
  • KlectorKidKlectorKid Posts: 3,723
    To much money!
    image
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    However, in light of their rarity, patterns are a steal. Compare a Proof 66 Shield Nickel, at close to $4k and one of many R6 (13-30 known) and some R7 patterns (4-12) Proof 66 patterns that can be had for two-thirds the price. Two examples that immediately come to mind are J312 and J489. Interestingly, the J489 is almost the exact same piece as the 1866 Shield Nickel.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

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  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Why would anyone in their right mind want to spend $20,000 for, say, a Washlady pattern half, 5-6 graded, when for the same amount of money they could add to their collections either an MS66 1889 5 cent piece with a little toning, an 1948-s quarter with modest eye appeal but somehow graded one point higher than all the rest of the 16 million minted, or an MS65 FBL 1953-s 50 cent piece with somewhat visible bell lines on the reverse, as if anybody really looked or cared?

    The short answer seems to be that, for now, if its not in the Redbook, then somehow it hasn't received official sanction as a coin collectible. But, just imagine what would happen if anyone thought of a way to incorporate patterns in the registry craze?
  • KlectorKidKlectorKid Posts: 3,723
    To bad I dont have 2/3 of the price of a PR-66 shield nickel.
    image
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    Points well taken, GT65. However, I'm NOT in my right mind, and I would go for that Wahlady half.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
  • GeminiGemini Posts: 3,085 ✭
    Years ago at coin shows I attended these pieces were looked at as more of an oddity than anything else.

    They didn't go begging but interest wasn't high as it is today and I liken them to Trade Dollars at the time both series in a kind of coin limbo.

    Most of the ones I saw were of aluminum or copper iand the majority were badly mishandled or cleaned and hairlined etc.

    Not too many impressed me and I passed on buying them.
    I did buy the Judd reference as I did like many of the designs.

    The deigns I really liked were the ones that seemed to be the rarer of the pieces.

    Now if I could only do it all over again...image
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    You're preaching to the choir, Gemini. I passed on some great Morgan dimes in 1980, and they are worth a few bucks more today.

    And, BTW, not all patterns are obscure pieces no one has ever seen. Check out J228, 507, 1550, 1690, as just a few examples of pieces that are regular dies, transitional or the like. All are mentioned in Breen.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can think of several reasons.

    1. Poor liquidity. No price sheets. Hard to put a value on.

    2. Too rare to be collectable by the masses. Very hard to define what a full set is. I have yet to be offered a R8 IHC pattern and have no hope of completing the series if you include copper, alum, etc.

    3. People don't know about them and don't care about them.

    4. There are no albums with holes in them for patterns.

    5. Perpetually badmouthed by dealers who sell "real" collectables.

    Other than that, it's a great idea!
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    I asked for only ONE good reason, not EVERY good reason. Great points. I give up. I'm moving into SBAs.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good - sell me your IHC/FE patterns! I'm a contrarian (sp??) though my wife claims I'm just contrary.image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    If I had them, I'd sell them. I just sold my last one (J167). Everything else is 5c, 10c, 25c, 50c and $1. I know there are a bunch of IHC/FEs at FUN. Are you going?
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

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  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RKKay

    PS - I placed a want ad on patterns.com over a year ago and haven't heard boo from anyone offering coin(s). Have you?
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I find patterns fascinating. I'd love to own a couple, but they are out of my price range.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • gmarguligmarguli Posts: 2,225 ✭✭
    I love patterns. There are so many beautiful designs it is hard to imagine that someone picked the bland and downright ugly designs (Barber, Seated) over them.

    I think the one main reason they aren't popular has been mentioned. They are hard to put a value on. I would have no idea what is a fair value for most of them and the idea of paying what I think it is worth isn't a good one.
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    That's so true. It is so subjective, and knowing the "market" and auction history are so important.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I love patterns especially the washlady patterns. It's difficult for me to believe that these were rejected. Just goes to show you they had bad taste back then, just as the people who select the state quarter designs do today. The reason I keep hearing that they aren't collected heavily is the inability to resale them without losses.
  • RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭
    That's true, and all the more reason to know the market, as there are a lot of patterns for sale at outrageous prices.
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <

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