1972 9s

EOMINT

Where the heck did they all go? For awhile they just kept coming out of the woodwork, now it seems like the supply has dried up....and I still have 40% of my set left to go! To all the dealers on this board, please start sending in more 72s to be graded, I can singlehandedly guarantee a ready market for the majority of them! Desperately seeking the Bob Gibson, Aaron in Action, Seaver In Action as far as star cards go, rest I need are primarily commons.

Also desperately seeking 71 Baylor/Baker RC PSA 9 NQ...will pay top $ for this card if anyone has it!

EOMINT

Wayne8348

Same goes for the 1974 psa 9's. I bought 58% of the set in psa 9 in 3 months and for the last 6 weeks haven't found hardly anything for sale.

Wayne

theBobs

Pay a bit over market on some cards on ebay, then the submissions will increase again. This roller coaster will continue its ups and downs...

Wayne8348

Trust me - if you buy 58% of a set off of ebay in psa 9 in 3 months you are paying above market. The 1974 9's have actually been selling very well - much better than when I first started bidding but the supply has just dried up. Anybody know where to buy raw 1974 cards? Any help would be appreciated.

wayne

JeffVN

I echo Wayne's desire to see more 74s in PSA 9. But, having had a chance to scan the pop reports today, I'd take more in 8s if they were available also.

gaspipe26

I couldnt get $20 for 1974 PSA 9's , so I stopped submitting them. If I know there are buyers I'll start sending again.

Kurt

I agree with gaspipe's thoughts. I think that commons from 72-79 in 8 & 9, except for "rarities", have been selling very poorly. For myself, they need to start closing for more money or PSA needs to lower submission rates even further to make it worthwhile to keep sending them in. If one gets results heavier on the 8's and lacking in 9's it obviously becomes a lost cause.

gemint

I think it depends on the card. Some PSA 9 1974s I listed a few weeks back went for less than $20. But some like the Willie Horton went for as much as $40. I agree though that 1974 9s don't do as well as most other years. I still have an extra Dock Ellis 9 if anyone is interested.

FB

I sort of figured that the 72 to Present special would have dealers throwing hundreds, if not thousands of early 70's carsd into PSA. I've spoken to a number of them who've said that when the registry special price is below what they normally pay - they get it too - and sometimes better!

Oh well... maybe the Holidays have slowed down submissions... I know that my credit card is screamin!

JeffVN

I here you. I know of several dealers who used to make large submissions in 1980 Topps, and they have bailed alltogether on that year for submission purposes.

How about I give you a list of the 74s that I need in a PSA 9 or better, and then you will not submit more than there is a guaranteed market for?

psa10fan

I have about 400 raw 1972's I'll be sending in before the set registry special expires on January 15. I'm getting anywhere from 15% to 40% 9s on my submissions.

braves72078

<< <i>I think it depends on the card. Some PSA 9 1974s I listed a few weeks back went for less than $20. But some like the Willie Horton went for as much as $40. I agree though that 1974 9s don't do as well as most other years. I still have an extra Dock Ellis 9 if anyone is interested. >>



What do you want for the Ellis 9?

Lmk asap
Billy

dakota

Wayne,
Im getting ready to submit a few invoices of 1974s. I agree that prices have risen a little bit for certain 74 9s due in part to a few more collectors interested in the set but i put up some harder to find 8s in the past month and practically gave them away.In fact most of the time your gonna lose money on 74 8s.
I know you only collect 9s and 10s. I `believe it will pick up after the new year.
By the way ......what a crazy auction for the 74 Ray Sadecki Met card.
Brian
#1 1974 Topps Baseball

JH

I didn't know that '74 were doing that well... I should really pay some attention to sets other than my own at times....Maybe I should pull out the '74s I opened last year and take a look at them... at the time I was only paying attention to star cards.... I think I opened about 8-9 packs which was about half the packs I bought...

JeffVN

Guys here is what I need for the 74s in 9 or better:

10 Bench, 34 Kosko, 85 Morgan, 111 Carroll, 201 rose batting leaders, 230 Perez, 248 Hall, 277 Nolan, 336 Rose AS, 410 Borbon, 491 Nelson, 559 Chaney, 601 outfield rookies, 608 pitchers rookies.

Any help you can offer is welcome and greatly appreciated. The most recent Bench PSA 9 sold for $330+ (more than 2X SMR) on E-Bay, the Morgan is about the same level.

Wayne8348

Just remember that I pay more for 1974 psa 9's!!!

Wayne

Does this sound familiar from somewhere?

crazysc

<< <i> For myself, they need to start closing for more money or PSA needs to lower submission rates even further to make it worthwhile to keep sending them in. >>



Lowering submission rates would be the worst possible thing to do - it would just generate an immediate temporary increase in submissions, and then the prices would further decrease and we'd be back to the same position.

The problem is - the reality of much of the card's values from commons in the early 70s in based on the cost of grading. It's not like cards from the '50s, even the mid-late '50s that have some value outside the holder. What is a NM/MT 72 Topps common worth raw? $2 max? What's a 74T blazing common worth? Double Beckett - $1? $2?

If the preception is that you can get the cards graded for $5, the cards won't sell for that much more, because people will figure "I'll buy it raw and get it graded myself", and there ARE these cards out there raw to find & submit (compared to '50s commons, for instance, which almost don't exist anymore in raw NM/MT to MT, at least not in processed dealer inventory).

Best thing to really do is just wait it out, and as people want to complete their sets, they'll have to bid higher on ebay for what is there, which will spur prices and then submissions. Cutting submission costs is just going to continue the spiral downward...

JeffVN

I'll tell you what. Show me a decent supply of raw 74s in TRUE NM-MT or better condition, and I would eliminate my situation on e-bay by grading my own. However, my experience to date is that the supply of raw 74s in NM-MT condition or even unopened material that has not been picked through is depleted. I'm not even going to open the door to the inflated raw grade allegations by sellers on E-Bay.

dakota

jeffvn,
Drop me an email if you really are interested in true nm-mt 74s raw. I might be able to help you out if you are interested in sending some to psa yourself. You can find my email address on the registry.
The Dogs 74 SET. Are you building the whole set or just the Reds?
Brian

Wayne8348

Brian,

I am definitely interested in buying raw 1974 cards that would be gradeable. I've posted here twice in the last 2 weeks asking if anyone knew where to buy cards and didn't get any replies. It's either very hard to find or nobody wants to sell raw cards.

Wayne

MickeyC

<< <i>However, my experience to date is that the supply of raw 74s in NM-MT condition or even unopened material that has not been picked through is depleted. >>



Has anyone ever purchased vintage boxes from Dave & Adam's? Here's a 1974 Wax box.

I've purchased modern boxes from them, but nothing vintage. Was wondering what their boxes have produced for the PSA submitting crowd.

Mark

Stump

Wayne I thought I would do a little research for you. There are 55 cards that do not have a grade of 9 and another 110 that the pop is 1 in nine and another 103 that the pop is 2. I dont know how many you have as I did not look into your set but my point is this represents about 41 percent of the set. If you have 58 percent done this looks to be a pretty good reason why your quest has ran into a wall. It would stand to reason that to finish this set in nine or better would require you to do some pinpoint submissions. I have a small source for the 74's and will investigate your set to see if I can help. Good luck you have your work cut out for you on this set in nine and above. By the way great job getting done what you have in a very short time.

Dave

Wayne8348

Mark,

thanks for the link to the 1974 box. Does anyone know what a fair price is on a 36 pack 1974 box? Is it wise to buy one just to have the cards graded and look for 9's?

Dave,

I appreciate your research. It will take me doing my own submissions to make this happen and at some point I will probably have to add in psa 8's until the 9's come available. The population has grown quite a bit in just the past 4 months but has stalled recently. It's way to early to tell what the actual low pop cards will be for the 74's since so few have actually been graded. I expected my quest to slow way down at 50% just because of what you said, but what has surprised me is the number of auctions on ebay is way down. There was pretty consistently 100 - 150 auctions at a time but that is down to about 15-20 at a time.

wayne

dakota

Wayne,
I tried to email you but it didnt go through.Drop me an email and i can help you out with some cards.
Its my opinion that the 74 wax would be an expensive and inefficent way to go. I have opened some packs and usually only came out with a card or two per pack that were worthy of submission.
Brian

gemint

I wouldn't pay more than $1300 for a box. I bought a few at or below that price in the past few years. As for breaking them, I opened a dozen or so packs from the boxes I had. At least 1/2 are OC (70-30 or worse). Then you have to contend with print defects. The top and bottom card are usually not submittable due to gum and wax steins. Out of the packs I opened, the only star that graded a 9 was Frank Robinson. I got a Schmidt but it was OC top to bottom and graded an 8 NQ (submitted with request for no qualifiers). Several commons did get 9's. What you may want to do is buy a pack or two from a trusted source and open them. If you're satisfied with the results, then you may want to purchase a full box (also from a trusted source). Or you can do what I did. Buy a full box from a trusted source, set a handful of packs aside to open and sell off the rest. That way you know you have legitimate packs that came from a full box you can open, yet you don't have to absorb the cost of a full box. Since individual packs go for a slight premium over a full box 'per pack' price, you should be able to reduce the cost of your packs even further. You may also want to save a pack unopened to keep with your set. It makes a nice addition to a complete set.

pc

<< <i> I still have an extra Dock Ellis 9 if anyone is interested. >>


does it come with a straw?

Wayne8348

Thanks for the help gemint. Any idea of who carries 74 topps boxes? For $1300 I would definitely buy at least one.

wayne

RobBobGolf

I buy nothing from D & As, they stink. 2500.00 for a 74 box is too high.


RobBob

Stump

RobBob--Why dont you tell us what you are really thinking.

Wayne--I agree with Gemint and RobBob 2500.00 is too high. There has to be other sources for this item. Wax is a dangerous item when you are looking to fill a set. On top of that you are looking to fill a set with high grade cards which makes wax a much more challenging item. Maybe some high grade sets or vending will come along. I know the feeling when a set is in your sights to finish but he turtle usually always wins in this game. Just my 2 cents.

Dave

mcastaldi

If you're looking for unopened material, I'd also call Steve at BBC Exchange. The number is 800-598-8656. Steve's always great to deal with and I never have any question on whether the stuff's been opened.

Mike

Stump

Mike good call on the bbcexchange. I have bought many cards from Steve and he is first class with lightning shipping.

Dave

gemint

Other than BBCardExchange, I don't have a recommended source. I buy them when I come across them which probably allows me to get them for a reasonable price. If you're in a hurry, you'll probably end up paying over market price for it. You may want to consider rack packs if you plan to open them. They would likely give a better yield of 9's over wax packs. I would never pay $2500 for a '74 wax box. That's almost $70 per pack which is way over market price.

EOMINT

I thought we were talking 72s here...instead this whole post somehow took a turn into 74land...and we all know the 74 set doesnt hold a candle to those psychedellic 72s!

Now arent there any gracious souls out there to help me with my fine 1972 set???

EO

Wayne8348

Did they make cards in 72?

Sorry about stealing your post EOmint and making into a 74 discussion. Hopefully some of the information would apply to the 72's as well. I appreciate everyone's help. I have never bought unopened packs before and wasn't sure how to go about it. It doesn't sound like there are many sources that carry it. I'll just keep my eyes open and hopefully it will come available eventually. It does sound like rack packs make a lot more sense than the regular packs. Thanks again,

Wayne

mcastaldi

Whether you're talking about 72s or 74s, the economics almost never make it attractive to crack an unopened box to submit. 72T wax boxes typically go in the neighborhood of $2500. 24 packs of 10 cards each is 240 cards. Assume you will automatically discard 3 cards per pack due to wax staining and indentations from the gum. So now you'd be down to 168 cards. $2500 for 168 cards works out to $14.88 per card right off the top. That's assuming all of those are submittable. Now. . .with 72s, you should probably assume only about 30% of those will be nice enough for PSA8 NQ. The rest having centering problems, print problems or any other flaw affecting grade. That leaves you with 50 cards worthy of PSA8 or better. Assuming the other cards have a value of zero, you're into those 50 cards at $50 each! I can't imagine getting enough stars to make the money even out.

Since I'm more familiar with 72s I used those as an example, but I can't imagine 74s being much better if any. I think this equation tends to become acceptable at about 1978s. 78T rack boxes are about $800-900 each and tend to yield about 100 PSA9-quality cards. So you're into those at about $9 each for the raw cards. With already-graded PSA9s going in the $10-15 range, you're already in the ballpark from the beginning price-wise. At that point it doesn't take too many stars to make it financially worth cracking the box. Maybe Phil can help with 77s, but I think if you crack anything before that with the intent to submit it you're just asking to get hurt.

EO> I presume you're out at every show you can get to beating the bushes and looking under every rock for raw PSA9-quality 72s to submit yourself in addition to trolling eBay for already-graded 72T PSA9s. . .barring that, there is no magic solution. I know Frank's 72 set very well and I can attest to the amount of hard work he has put into finding/submitting his own PSA9s above and beyond just acquiring them from eBay.

Mike

FB

I have got to agree with EO (Eric Olander) on this but with one slight twist.

Please keep sending in 72's (BUT ONLY THE GOOD ONES!!!)

Since 72% of my set is already in 9 and Eric is at 58% I'm guessing that there are 420 cards where the two of us won't be bidding on eBay. So, if you're looking for better prices - figure out the ones that both or at least one of us are missing and send those bad boys on in!!!

JeffVN

There are currently 66 registered sets for 72 Topps and 47 registered sets for 74 topps. I know the number of items for sale on E-Bay has dropped for 74s in PSA 9 or 10, and seems to be the same for 72s. I've seen comments of the boards from several dealers stating that the market has gotten soft on certain year sets and, therefore, they have stopped making submissions.

The problem with non-targeted submmissions to PSA, seems to be (at least to me), that once a set collector gets a certain card he does not really need another one in the same grade for the same set. If targeted submission were made, meaning the dealers and the buyers communicate what they need and what they have BEFORE the submission takes place, everyone would be happier. The dealers would sell the cards that they've sumbitted, and the buyers have a supply of cards that they need to help finish their sets.

Although I buy items from E-Bay, I built most of my 1980 Topps Set by working directly with another set collector (RobE) and several vendors (BruceMo, BBX, and 5 Star). This worked very well until my set was 60% complete. Once Rob and I reached the 60% range, we didn't need a lot the cards that were avialabe on E-Bay, so we stopped buying there. Now it seems that some of the vendors don't want to submit any 1980 topps, or 74 topps, or 72 topps, because the initial feeding frenzy is over. I think everyone is getting frustrated, buyers, because the supply of cards that they need to finish sets is drying up and Dealers because the market got soft when no none seemed to buy the cards that were being submitted and sold. I THINK COMUNICATION BEFORE PSA SUBMISSION TAKES PLACE IS THE ANSWER.

gaspipe26

Cant help you guys on the 72's unless I find some new stuff. I can help the 74 and 76 collectors. If there are buyers then I'll submit and sell outright. Most of you know I'm pretty reasonable on pricing. I also have a boat load of 78's and 79's. Are these worth submotting yet?

gaspipe26-rjc012661@aol.com

FB

You always did play favorites Bob!

gemint

I think the problem isn't people wanting 9's and being willing to pay for them. The problem is what to do with the 8s. Unless you have slam dunk gem blazers, submitting nice cards from those years likely won't yield >50% 9s. The 8's have buyers, but they often won't bid high enough to cover the cost of grading, let alone shipping costs and raw card cost (if any). So the question is, what do the dealers do with all the 8s they get back? If they can make enough off the 9s to cover the losses on the 8s, then they'll still make a profit. But the margins likely won't be exciting enough to get them in the business of grading and listing thousands of commons. Aside from a few dealers specializing in that market segment, most of the graded commons come from duplicates of set builders like myself and others on these forums or from broken sets from the registry.

RobE

Jeff,we did extremely well with who we networked with.I can't complain when looking back on everything.The dealers who were the main resources I don't blame for passing on us when they have a shot at making 8k on a PSA 10 70 Rose when we're buying $10 cards that are selling for much less on ebay in most cases.The only thing I feel bad about is nobody we were working with decided to inform us their 80T submissions were taking a back seat to their current plans.If I knew that sooner other plans could have been easily made with our fellow set builders and supporters who have probably about 30,000 raw cards between them.Well,like my sig line says - 154 needed to complete and between the few you have,the
bunch Creason is sending in and the raw cards he's going to sell me (I should know about by the end of this weekend) it's still possible the set will be done by March but it's getting down to the bare wire for me to complete it.

It's funny that you brought this up in the middle of a discussion for 72s as the concept we implimented with our fellow 80T setbuilders is pretty much the same as what the 72 set builders were doing.I got the idea from Mike Castaldi and is associates while lurking here.I saw these guys teaming up instead of killing eachother for cards (in most cases) and watched these guys successfully build their sets.

Getting back to the 80Ts which are not as popular as the 72s or any set prior to 79 there are quite a few people who collect those cards.Set builders or not setbuilders there out there.I'm very happy to have worked with you Jeff and the group of buyers & sellers we came across.Everyone has contributed something to putting the set togethor along with a safe buying selling & trading network to boot.

Some things about the 80T set don't make sense.For example,one of my PSA 8s went for almost $20 in my last run of auctions.PSA 8 How that card sells for that price is beyond me.I don't know wether to feel bad about it or not.In one way I don't since my PSA 9 Jackson sold for $24.99 while one 24 hours before went for double that.

FB

Eric,

I know its not a huge help - but I just posted 12 or so 72 PSA 9's on eBay. I think that you need 2 or 3 of them.

My Auctions

tbub

FB + EO I put it up on Vintage Trade New Years day I had 72 8's 9's up on E-Bay. I wish I'd checked the pop reports first . I sold a psa 9 #377 Harmon for $52 which was pretty good I thought. Eric J. emails me thrilled he won it so cheap " its a 1 of 1 always off center should have gone for a lot more" I emailed back feel free to send more cash but don't think I'll hear from him. Where were you guys I listed them now instead of in spring because of this post. Have about 50 more 72's I hope to get in before special ends.

FB

tbub,

I didn't notice it until after it closed while looking through Erik Jarvi's auctions(don't tell him I do that! - just our secret...). I don't think that it ever came up when I searched on "1972 PSA 9" because you had it listed as "1972 PSA-9". I bet that Eric Olander (EO) ran into the same issue. And yes - Erik is right - that card is a booger to find centered. So now he's added the Frank Baker - #409 and the Terry Harmon - #377 in PSA 9 - two of the toughest cards in the set (and I don't have them yet!!!)

Still need 222 more cards from 72 Topps in PSA 9 or 10 until all of the 8's have been replaced!

565 down so far!

andiehaley

Hi,

Just noticed your note. I do have 10 PSA 9's available. Please e-mail me at andiehaley@hotmail.com and I'll review it with you.

Much thanks.

Keith