Ever seen a perfect 71 Kennedy proof?
DHeath
Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
Here is the link!
1971 Proof Kennedy PR70
And here is a 1971 PR69 Cam with a BIN of $35.00
1971 Proof Kennedy PR69 Cam
Better still, a 1964 PR70 Cam JFK
1964 PR70 Cam - the cam is just caked on this one...huh
1971 Proof Kennedy PR70
And here is a 1971 PR69 Cam with a BIN of $35.00
1971 Proof Kennedy PR69 Cam
Better still, a 1964 PR70 Cam JFK
1964 PR70 Cam - the cam is just caked on this one...huh
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
William S. Burroughs, Cities of the Red Night
That has to be on the slab. If it were on the coin, ICG would never have graded it a 70.
Russ, NCNE
Tim
or in other words how much should I bid to outbid russ
<< <i>He gets most of his material from Michael Reuben, who ran Numismatic Consultants in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, until he shuttered the operation. >>
Coinage did a big write-up on Michael Rueben back in April of 2000. Do you happen to know
any details or what he's doing now days?
DcamFranklin, on a serious note, I used to buy some PCGS stuff from him, last year I believe. I bought quite a few PR69 Dcam JFK's from him for $15 each. I was sorry to hear about his burnout.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The 1971 Proof sets were among the worst sets the mint ever issued. It was just a dull, lack-luster, boring issue. When they took the silver out of half dollar, the interest went down too. The coins were not well made either.
A lot of 1950 sets were dull and lifeless, but at least they were made of silver, and the set had a low mintage.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I, too, used to buy PCGS material from them for really low prices. I also bought MS67 RD Lincolns on Amazon.com that they had on auction for about 50% of CDN. I was sorry to see them go belly-up.
Camelot
Camelot
You are the man/bear.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
No, on second thought, I don't.
I just remembered I heard the other day that Ruben is dumping large volumns of material on TeleTrade.
Airplanenut- Perhaps you should go to ICG's website and see the terms of their grade guarantee. I had to exercise it only once and found it VERY satisfactory!
<< <i>
<< <i>He gets most of his material from Michael Reuben, who ran Numismatic Consultants in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, until he shuttered the operation. >>
Coinage did a big write-up on Michael Rueben back in April of 2000. Do you happen to know
any details or what he's doing now days? >>
I recently won an ebay auction from a business in Hilton Head - ebay id certifiedmoderncoins. Figured it was somehow associated with Numismatic Consultants........ ? They usually have a lot of high end NGC slabs and also ICG slabs. Was a smooth transaction - only problem was the chumps didn't leave any feedback........ but it was a good price on an excellent coin!
Is Russ bidding?
I really believe ICG probably does a pretty good job with the classic material, and believe some of the old holder classic stuff is a real bargain. I read EVP's thread, and tip my hat to him for being smart enough to see past the holder. I'm not surprised that he did, or that the coins crossed. I usually search the ICG stuff hoping to find a bargain that the herd has overlooked. My only complaint with ICG is specific to one of the series I collect, the proof Kennedies. I don't know how they are with other moderns, but I really feel they don't take the Kennedies very seriously, and that seems to be reflected by the coins I've purchased in their holders. I search these auctions all the time, and buy quite a few coins, and although it may seem like pointed picking to you, truly, I am constantly amazed at what they holder as PR69-70 and what they call cam/dcam. I guess I am a little offended that they seem not to take the coins too seriously, so sometimes I tend to not take them too seriously. I get the feeling if it is a shiny proof they will give it a 69, and if it is a nice shiny proof, they'll give it a 70. I'd be happy to have a civil discussion with anyone at ICG that feels like discussing these issues with me, and can be reached at my email address anytime. Look, I know you probably disagree with my opinion of their modern grading, but I think if you bought a few of their Kennedy slabs, you would lend more credibility to my opinion. I find myself in agreement with many of your posts, and believe the only way you really could feel the grades ICG assigns the Kennedys are correct, or are consistent, would be if you didn't take the series very seriously either. If that's the case, that's OK, many don't, but I hope that explains my original post. No flames, just pointing out the cavalier attitude they take with the series. The price the ICG Kennedies fetch seems to indicate other Kennedy collector's take on the issue.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
When you said, "...perfect 71..." This was the first thing that popped into my mind. After I opened your thread up, I found out you ment, "Ever seen a PR70DCAM 1971 Kennedy proof?" Sorry it's only a CAM... I couldnt find a DCAM
David
By the way, you have misunderstood my feeling about the Kennedy coin. I find the design to be very nice and certainly take the Kennedy seriously. However, I found the profit potential, appreciation potential, to be very poor. And they have been in a downward spiral. I simply hoped to warn the newbies that they would probably lose money on their acquisitions. Now, with common date coins in PCGS PR-69 DCAM holders selling for $10 to $15 each, there is little downside for the coin. By the way, I still like the value of the SMS Cameo & DCAMs. Thanks for your thoughts!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
When ICG first opened, they did a WONDERFUL job grading classic coins. (But they did NOT do a good job of assigning varieties, not even Red Book varieties) Their best coins were every bit as nice as the best coins that PCGS and NGC graded. Then when they were unable to penetrate the top layer of the certification market to join NGC and PCGS, they let their standards drop. Yes, if you look at every ICG coin, you can find bargains. But if you are a dealer, you have got to get the good coins reholdered because it's very hard to get good prices for "the product." In conversations with my peers in the classic coin market, they have agreed with this opinion.
As for doing a shoddy job with grading modern coins, ICG is like every company expect PCGS. I have seen truly awful modern coins in NGC holders with numbers like MS and PR-66 and 67 on them. It's almost like they have a pre-conceived bell curve and toss coins in piles to conform to it without regard as to the quality of what they are tossing. Putting the coin the holder is the first concern; grading it is the next. This stems from the bulk grading deals when the services grade coins at bargain levels like $8 a piece. I guess you get what you pay for, but the consumer who can't grade is the one who gets it in the neck.
PCGS is the best when it comes to grading modern very high-grade coins because they have taken the time to do a credible job. BUT before you think I have gone soft and mushy, I’ve seen some really mediocre modern coins in PCGS MS-65 holders. They have really low standards for modern coins in MS-65 holders. Some of those pieces were no better than run of mill pocket change in plastic with lots of marks and mediocre eye appeal. When I asked a dealer I know well what he was getting for these items, he told me $35.00. I told him, “You’re kidding.”
I have since noticed that he has gotten out of the MS-65 modern coin business.