Baffle Quotient Update
Singapore
Posts: 578
OK guys, I've read the responses and they seem to fit neatly into 3 or 4 categories:
1. We modern registry collectors enjoy what we're doing and we're not hurting anyone else so bug off.
2. Actually, despite the massive mintage figures, and the fact that thousands upon thousands of collectors and non-collectors are saving them, and 6,347 different dealers are offering them at any given time in Coinworld or EBay et al, these modern coins actually ARE exceptionally rare in high grades and almost certain to be worth enormous amounts of money in the future. This is not a contrived promotion developed by the 3rd party grading companies (and endorsed by PT Barnum) to convince thousands of honest hard-working people to pay $10 a pop (pun intended) to slab every coin currently in their wallet and then to compete with other people to see who has the most coins in plastic holders graded as '69'.
3. Your coins are ugly (and the corollary; 'my coins can beat up your coins'). If ClausUrch believes, for example, that the New Hampshire State quarter is 'high art', I think its unlikely anything I type here will alter that view. I would suggest in that case that perhaps a visit to a local museum, or an introductory art class to broaden one's horizons would be warranted. My personal opinion is that a PF63 1796 Myddleton Token, MS64 Castorland Medal or MS65RD 1773 Virginia Halfpenny are more attractive than anything the mint has cranked out since the last Mercury Dime left the press in 45. For the record, a New Jersey copper penny in F15 with active verdigris and a large hole in it would NOT be attractive in my opinion, but thats not what I'm talking about, not what I collect, not something I'd pay $11 for (let along $1000).
4. The general 'boy, we got you but good!!!!!!!!!!' giddy responses (one can almost imagine the guys exchanging a congratulatory high-five awash in self-satisfaction). Obviously, I was trying to be inflammatory in hopes that it would generate and stimulate discussion - which, based on the number of responses, I would say it accomplished.
1. We modern registry collectors enjoy what we're doing and we're not hurting anyone else so bug off.
2. Actually, despite the massive mintage figures, and the fact that thousands upon thousands of collectors and non-collectors are saving them, and 6,347 different dealers are offering them at any given time in Coinworld or EBay et al, these modern coins actually ARE exceptionally rare in high grades and almost certain to be worth enormous amounts of money in the future. This is not a contrived promotion developed by the 3rd party grading companies (and endorsed by PT Barnum) to convince thousands of honest hard-working people to pay $10 a pop (pun intended) to slab every coin currently in their wallet and then to compete with other people to see who has the most coins in plastic holders graded as '69'.
3. Your coins are ugly (and the corollary; 'my coins can beat up your coins'). If ClausUrch believes, for example, that the New Hampshire State quarter is 'high art', I think its unlikely anything I type here will alter that view. I would suggest in that case that perhaps a visit to a local museum, or an introductory art class to broaden one's horizons would be warranted. My personal opinion is that a PF63 1796 Myddleton Token, MS64 Castorland Medal or MS65RD 1773 Virginia Halfpenny are more attractive than anything the mint has cranked out since the last Mercury Dime left the press in 45. For the record, a New Jersey copper penny in F15 with active verdigris and a large hole in it would NOT be attractive in my opinion, but thats not what I'm talking about, not what I collect, not something I'd pay $11 for (let along $1000).
4. The general 'boy, we got you but good!!!!!!!!!!' giddy responses (one can almost imagine the guys exchanging a congratulatory high-five awash in self-satisfaction). Obviously, I was trying to be inflammatory in hopes that it would generate and stimulate discussion - which, based on the number of responses, I would say it accomplished.
Singapore
0
Comments
Ken
you welcoming us to your board.
...Welcome aboard.
Somehow I suspect that you are fully aware that there has been a war of
epic proportions weerying to a close here. It was a battle between the old
and new and had mostly been fought to a satisfactory stalemate. We are
generally agreed that people should collect what they want and that many of
us will never want moderns.
While your coins are not really ugly many don't feel they can afford to collect
them in the more "attractive" grades. And while you may not care for modern
designs, there are virtually no coins whose designs were appreciated when they
were current. Obviously none of the regular issue moderns are likely to ever
be considered "high art", some of them are probable to be much more apprec-
iated in the future.
Happy collecting (or investing, or whatever it is we are all doing here) -
Singapore
For along time, I didn't have much to say on this board, and still don't have a clue to as what some of the people on this message board are talking about. I used to sit and read these posts alot. Still do. I also read alot of coin issues like Coinage and coinworld. I don't recall seeing 6,347 different adds selling the coins that I collect, which are Modern Roosevelts.
I guess that statement that you made regarding that if you took all of your slabs and lined them up next to each other, you can't tell the difference between a MS67,68, or 69, and that they all look the same. And if they were out of their slabs, no one could tell the difference, not even the guys at PCGS.
Do you work for PCGS? Your answer should be NO. I don't either. That is why I send my coins into PCGS and have them graded. I literally bought a gem 1938-S FSB Mercury dime that I thought was a beautiful coin. I sent it in to have it graded and it was whizzed. Low and behold I paid $120.00 for that hunk of crap! Luckily, I got my money back. I am no expert in coin collecting even though I have been doing it for nearly 30 years, but I can tell you 1 thing. If you like to collect coins that are 200 years old, go ahead. I can't afford them.
I don't have any room in my life for people who knock my hobby. This forum is for free speech and open opinions for which both of us have established, but if you say that any coin that someone pays lets say $100.00 for in a high grade in which for that date there has been 3,985,465,345 minted and it is crap because they are soooo common because they can be found in your couch, which in a sense you where saying, the you will get slammed and have several people giving each other high 5's.
I never once gave myself a high 5.
Paul.
Later, Paul.
I take almost as much joy in reading comments posted by collectors who have discovered an interest in collecting something that excites them as I do in collecting coins that I like. Why spend time trying to understand why someone hasn't discovered that your coins are really the best ones to collect and the other collectors interests aren't as worthwhile? Why not put that same energy into respecting what others collect and maybe learning something about the coins and the people who collect them. If not I suggest we collect in a vacuum and not be bothered with public boards.
Finally this hobby is a joy for me, an escape from the daily grind, the last thing I need is some so called coin expert raining on that parade. (no reference made to any one individual here including the poster).
The reference was made to 1945 by Singapore. OK - can we talk for a moment about the following year - 1946. I have to laugh when folks throw around "mintage figures". Consider a 1946(p) Lincoln Cent for which (from memory) the mintage was around 1,000,000,000 coins - yes, 1 BILLION!! Still, there have only been a couple PCGS-MS67RD pieces ever found!! They are very scarce coins in MS67RD grade and unheard of in any grade above that. I wonder what collectors were saying about 1946(p) Lincolns in the 1950's and 1960's (and for that matter, the 1970's and 1980's)!! When super gem Uncs. commanded $1, would anyone have thought that one day in the not too distant future, really nice superb gem Uncs. might command $4,000 or $5,000, or perhaps even more?
Now, maybe the thought of a 1946(p) Lincoln in "true MS67RD grade" being worth multi-thousands of dollars with a mintage of 1,000,000,000 sounds funny to some. Likewise, who really knows for sure what an OHIO(p) state quarter with a mintage of around 299,000,000 will be worth in "true MS69 grade"? Even today, I suspect many collectors would prefer the OHIO quarter to the 1946(p) Lincoln despite the fact that the Lincoln might command a higher price in the marketplace
To cladking, wondercoin, and anyone else who collects moderns. As a "reformed" modern basher, it really wasn't that I thought it was stupid for someone to spend thousands on modern coins as much as I would think to myself what coins that I like I could buy with that money. And it isn't that the coins are not old, but the designs are just bad. I do realize how scarce some of these are in the 67 and above range, but any coin going thru the minting process to circulation would be hard to find in 67 and above. What they go thru just keeps this from happening.
The fact that you can buy a Bust Half in nice AU (and they are beautiful) for $200, why would anyone pay $2500 for a 1999 SBA in 68. This is just one example and I guess what drives me crazy. But as someone said "just let everyone collect what they like and can afford". For me it has been all the dimes (yes, even Roosevelts, which are ugly) Walkers, SLQ's, Liberty Nickels and Barber Quarters.
JMHO, Jon
<< <i>... it really wasn't that I thought it was stupid for someone to spend thousands on modern coins as much as I would think to myself what coins that I like I could buy with that money. >>
You and me both; I often wonder if I could buy enough of the item raw with that amount of cash
to be statistically certain of getting one. This way I'd have all those undergrades also. The prices
don't really get this high with the occasional exception of the current year coinage.
<< <i>
I do realize how scarce some of these are in the 67 and above range, but any coin going thru the minting process to circulation would be hard to find in 67 and above. What they go thru just keeps this from happening. >>
In the old days people collected new coins and usually tried to save the best possible example. True
there have always been few people collecting current coin, but only from about 1965 to 1998 was the
number of current coin collectors at virtually zero (especially for he dime and quarter). People may well
have been discouraged by the near dearth of attractive examples. If it weren't for the large numbers
of mint sets made each year many of these coins would be hard to find at all in unc.