Anyone know what causes this toning on 45-S Merc. Dimes?

Tonelover

NGC has certified hundreds of these 1945-S Mercury Dimes in MS-68 and many of them have this similar toning pattern. You can find them relatively easily. They seem natural enough to me, but I have always been curious as to their origin. Anyone have any information on the subject?

1945-S

coppercoins

That's MS63/64 at best...probably an old coin folder.

Blade

Jon,
I asked the exact same thing a couple weeks ago and could not get consensus. I am damn curious about this question!!!

Here is mine:

Blade

By the way, I am guessing roll toning, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why the colors are so different on the reverse, and why the major reverse features remain white.

Tonelover

Where's TomB when you need him?

stman

Blade, That's a beauty. He has another one up in 67, but it looks like it's got a couple print lines on the obv field about 9:00. Text

TWQG

I've heard roll toning. I do know there are a bunch that look very similar and it's always the 45-S. When I bought mine (which I am selling now on ebay) there were about a half dozen to choose from. The high point on the reverse nearly touches the next coin when stacked in rolls so air doesn't circulate in that part is my guess.

dpoole

Here's Blade's earlier post about this.

TomB did respond to that one, but didn't expound in that particular reply.

TWQG--Interesting. I hadn't heard that before. It makes some sense on the face of it, yet I wonder why that untoned center of the reverse is so striking and unique for that particular hoard? I hadn't seen this kind of consistent detail in other Mercs.

Blade

Stman,
Thanks! I looked at about 30 of these in the Heritage archives and none looked as nice as this one to me. (Extremely clean toning). Since the markup is all in the toning, I got this one, an MS68, for only $10 more than the MS67.

Sean - OK, I kind of buy that argument. Except the reverse would have to touch the obverse. Why isn't a part of the obverse white also? Maybe it has something to do with the vertical nature of the design.

I'll tell ya, I don't even collect Mercs and find these stunning. I would think every serious fishing lure collector would jones for one of these.

Aaron04

I have been wondering this also,they seem to be everywhere.I just bought a NGC 68FB for about $450.
There were a bunch of 37 D's going around also with the same ( not the same as the 45 S's ) toning pattern which had me wondering also.

TWQG

I've never seen one in a PCGS holder, has anyone?

Blade

Aaron,
Got a pic? I would love to see one of these in FSB.

PCGS has never certified a 45-S in 68 or 68FB. Now, I know NGC often gives a 1 pt bennie for the toning, but wouldn't it be cool if on of these could cross to PCGS as a 68 and be pop 1/0?

Aaron04

If you can put up a link its ebay item #804867256 .I havent received the coin yet so Im not sure what it looks like in person.

Blade

LINKED

Great reverse! Looks FSB to me. Do you think that is a print on the obverse or just the toning?

Aaron04

Im not sure if it's a print or toning.I guess when the coin arrives I will find out.Hope its toning

CarlWohlforth

I had one of those. It is one of two coins I can think of at the moment I wish I hadn't sold. Mine was MS 67 FB.

It is as if the dimes were stored such that the fasces were protected but the rest of the coin wasn't. I don't have much of a guess how that could happen.

It sounded like (in the other thread) like TomB did know about this hoard. I'd like to know more and also to own one again.

eminem

I think that if you click on the pic and enlarge it you can see it is a fingerprint applied years ago and the toning developed around it.

FrattLaw

This might sound a little odd, but Sean is probably onto something with his comment about the fact that they aren't in PCGS holders.

I bought a toned 24 Peace with similar colors in an old NGC holder. I saw the coin's brother/sister at a recent show. How do I know it was related? The number on the slab is the invoice # and line #. That coin and my coin were submitted on the same invoice. I was told by a dealer that the reason these two coins look identical is due to the slab. The older NGC slabs don't have a gasket between the paper label and coin. Thus, it starts to react with the coin, creating great colors and toning. Often, once these coins "achieve" a certain looked, they are resubmitted in order to get them into a new holder, maybe upgrade based on the new found color.(please note, not all older NGC slabs create this toning though, it must have something to do with the coins as well, hence two 24 peaces and a load of 45-S Mercs)

This maybe also be the case with the Mercs, all were originally submitted, toned due to the holder and where then resubmitted and sold throught the US via shows and the Internet.

I am probably wrong, but its my educated guess.

Michael

wingedliberty

Blade is correct, its probably roll toning, possibly from the same hoard, could have been a massive
submission to NGC. There is no sure answer. The only thing about these that I am sure about is that
they are gorgeous and original and they find a welcome home in my collection.


Brian.

BigD5

Frattlaw, I don't think that's the reason, "a missing gasket", in the older ngc holders. I think you guys have made the correct assumptions in that it was probably a roll that someone submitted, and the coins have been dispersed, and continue to disperse throughout the market. Cool looking coin, that's for sure. I'm just wondering how dark the surfaces are. Too dark? Or is that the picture.

toners

JOh,
I have a NGC 45s 68 with the same toning, the reverse is awsome, bought mine from morganluver, will try to post a pic.

TomB

As far as I understand there were many of these dimes that were submitted at the same time to NGC only, not PCGS, and that is likely why they are not found in PCGS holders. I don't know if I buy the roll toning theory, anyway, I had heard a story of the storage of these coins that is somewhat contradictory to roll toning. I heard, and don't know if it is entirely true, that these coins were in several bank promotion folders. Those type of folders that say something like "Save a dime a day..." and that the coins toned from the folders. There were several folders of them submitted at one time to NGC and that is why they are all in NGC slabs. There are certain parallels between this theory and the toned Ike theory, however, I believe that the Ikes are truly AT under nearly any definition of the term and that these coins are natural because the colors match more closely what is typically found and there haven't been aliquots of them released over time. They simply came up on the market, were slabbed, have been sold and have not appreciated very much over time.

michael

i was going to post on this coin but

after reading tomb response right above mine he

hits the nail right on the head and he says it extremely well!!!!!!!!!!!!! totally 100% correct


sincerely michael

please reread the response tomb made right above mine and if still confused please reread over and over!!

Spinynorman

I got the same explanation (save-a-dime holder) for mine a while back from rainbowroosie.

wingedliberty

Tom:
This is a fascinating notion and one that I can buy.


Brian.

ArtR

I have heard basically the same story as TomB on these coins. The largest majority of the coins were intially put up on Teletrade some where around 1997 or 1998. They were spread out over several auctions.

dorkkarl

dudes, it is roll toning. i bet i've searched thousands of rolls of dimes over the years, such toning IS NOT rare. oddly, dimes seem more susceptible than quarters or halves.

K S

Fairlaneman

Seems to me for some reason 44S and 45S Mercs pick up some stunning colors that other dates donot even come close to showing. Have been puzzled by this for years.

Ken