1992 and 2002 grading standards

jcping

In 1992-93, I bought these Ike proof dollars from teletrade and all coins were described as "brilliant, good strike, nice luster, deep mirror." Last month, I re-submitted them for re-grade; here are the results (I added a column in the beginning to note the grade in 1992). The PCGS submission ticket number is 3055897.

PR67 1 60065011 1971-S S$1 Silver PR68CA
PR68 2 60065012 1972-S S$1 Silver PR69DC
PR67 3 60065013 1973-S $1 Clad PR69DC
PR67 4 60065014 1973-S S$1 Silver PR69DC
PR67 5 60065015 1974-S $1 Clad PR69DC
PR67 6 60065016 1974-S S$1 Silver PR69DC
PR67 7 60065017 1976-S $1 Clad Type 1 PR68DC
PR67 8 60065018 1976-S $1 Clad Type 2 PR69DC
PR67 9 60065019 1976-S S$1 Silver PR69CA
PR67 10 60065020 1977-S $1 PR69DC
PR68 11 60065021 1978-S $1 PR69DC

What do you think? In 1992, there is no CAM or DCAM destination. My take is that, most Ike proof coins graded in 1992 are two points under-graded with today's standards. Who said PCGS standard never changed.

inneedof70s

I better resubmit some of mine, I might have a PR71DCAM somewhere.

wondercoin

Congratulations!!

I believe you have proven a point I have suggested a couple times on the boards. The question often comes up (especially referring to Mint State modern coin grading say from 1965-date): What if grading standards change and PCGS loosens up a point -won't the pops skyrocket and values fall? Answer: "Yes" to rising pops and "possibly" to lowering prices, BUT, there will be some wonderful coins in the old holders that might have a shot to upgrade to new grades of finest known if such occurs.

By way of example only (and this is purely an example as the pop is still 0 on the MS68) - say someone bought a sensational 1999(d) PA State Quarter in PCGS-MS67 a few years ago for $1000 or even $1500. Now, say PCGS were to loosen up a 1/10 or even 2/10 of a point over a period of years. Now, let's say the pop on the PA(d) were to go up from around 30 today to 50 a year or two from now, but one or two of the early "PQ" MS67 coins were to eventually upgrade into a pop 1 or pop 2 MS68 coin. If MS67 PA pricing were to drop to $500 but the pop 1 or 2 MS68 coin were to be worth multi- thousands of dollars - did the "loosening" actually hurt the picky buyer who bought a QUALITY MS67 coin in the firstplace?

Now, having said that, I will mention that my personal pricing on MS Ikes these days includes the potential that a 1/10 or 2/10 shift in grading standard MIGHT result in many more MS67 coins being graded. But, again, the monster quality MS67 coins will have plenty going for them even then. As for the proofs. your submission does tend to show just how comfortable PCGS has become grading coins dated 1971-date in the PR68 and PR69 grades. This is especially the case for coins dated 1977-date.

Wondercoin

michael

i guess in general yoU asked and answered your own question!!! with proof positive results

sincerely michael

braddick

The only flaw in this logic is I've found that Proof grades of ten years ago were TIGHTER- almost across the board. You rarely if ever saw a PCGS coin with a PR69 grade (before the CAMS/DCAMS).
There was even one Collector/Dealer who used to set up at Long Beach that had all PCGS Proof Kennedies in his case. Many were PR67's, some were PR68's and a select few (not for sale!) were PR69.

This Dealer was offering memberships in his club, a club designed to assist collectors in the formulation of Proof Kennedy sets. I even joined, buying a Proof 1974-S in PCGS PR67. It was pure black and white- nice coin.

I do think though the Mint State grading was either equal to what we have now or even slightly looser.

To make the leap in logic that because PCGS was much tigher with the Proof grade they also were with MintState is faulty.

Sealyp

Jc, how were these resubmitted? For regrade? Or did you have the nerve to crack them out and submit them raw? Good submission now matter what way, it sure worked out well for ya' !

jcping

I submitted them in the original PCGS holders (all with Green labels). I did not crack them out.

Did I happy with the results? All but one, the key date one, 1976S Clad Type one. I believe it is as good as all other PR69DC.

misterR

What I would really like to see is a table showing the total number of business strike Ikes submitted for grading to PCGS for each of the last 10 years and the percentage of that total for each of the grades from mint state 63, 64, 65, 66 and 67. I don't know how to compile something like that but am fairly confident it would show an increasing number of submissions with a decrease in level of the grades assigned. Has anyone received a 67 on an Ike business strike this year? Maybe someone could figure out a way to do this, Wondercoin maybe. I tried something similiar to this using Teletrades "price guide". What I found was that the number of MS 67 business strikes peaked about 5 years ago at approximately 20 pieces offered at auction down to only a few offered this year. Hope this was not too off the subject of this thread.