Hmmm ... 1971 Proof Set at $76... Thoughts?

RGL

There's a bit of a gambler in all of us -- well, at least many of us -- but how many here are willing to pony up $75 on a $5 1971 proof set on the basis of a scan? LINK. Granted, 1971 is the toughest modern date to score a decent CAM or DCAM on given the scarcity of cameos, shoddy planchets and tons of haze on this date, but ... The JFK looks nice, but do you still lay down this kind of money? Our old friend pepperdoodles, the big-bucks sniper extraordinare, snatched up this one at the last second at $76, topping a $75 bid from another guy who has been picking up 1971 proof sets with promise for the last couple of weeks, but he generally has not strayed about $30-$35. (Gee, think I have been looking for some nice sets, as well? ) And, indeed one set I snuck by 'doodles and competition arrived today, DCAM Jeff on the obverse with great mirrors and planchet for the date. Amazing. Flip it over, DCAM reverse ... for the eastern three-fourths of Monticello before it fades out to CAM and then the tinest tinge of brilliant. Drats! Still, a pretty coin for the date. And, I only spent $5.

Russ

I sure hope he got better scans than that before laying down that kind of money. I can't count how many '71 sets I bought that looked every bit as good, and were pure crap.

Russ, NCNE

LucyBop

Phooey on PepperDooDoo!

RGL

But, Russ ... at least you were not paying $76. If you were, it at last explains the roots of your madness.

Russ

RGL,

Correct. I think the highest I paid was $15 or so. On the rare ones that actually had cameo on both sides, the planchets were always junk. I finally gave up trying.

Russ, NCNE

braddick

It looks like more than the half is Cameo and the half sure has the frosting caked on the obverse.
Might be a nice little set- a royal flush?

RGL- You're right about gambling though. It could also turn into a pair of spades!

DHeath

Pretty good risk reward. If there is an underbidder that will pay $75 for the set based on the pics that were put up, he gets a real look for $1. The half looks better than average in the scan. If it is a PR68 Dcam, he scored. If it's a PR68 Cam, he broke even. If it isn't good enough to submit, he'll resell it and lose $15, give or take. Everybody tries to make the 71 half. Russ, Marty and myself have probably looked at 2,000 sets in the last few years, as I'm sure countless other Kennedy specialists have, and the best I've turned up so far is a PR68 Dcam. The risk isn't buying the set for $75, it's submitting 5 iffy coins hoping to get the dcam designation. IMO It isn't bad enough that the reverse cam is always so weak, it seems that the die set that produces the best cam has a flaw that shows up as a mark on the obverse. His gamble isn't as crazy as it seems on the surface.

Russ

<< <i>If it's a PR68 Cam, he broke even. >>



Don,

Only if the other coins bring in some money. The half by itself in 68CAM is a $30 coin.

Russ, NCNE

braddick

Don- the 71-S may be a cheaper coin in just PR68CAM, but you're right- bump it up one notch and you've got a winner. Bump it up TWO notches and be giggling all Christmas season long.

Here's a "one bump" auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=804815436

keets

........i would say from the scan provided that NONE of the coins in the set will be frosted enough for DCAM so the numerical grade is really a moot point.

what i find most interesting about the replies thus far is that unless i checked the wrong pop figures, the cent, nickel and quarter combined have a lower total in PCGS PR69DCAM than the half dollar for 1971. i'm not certain of the pricing on any of the denominations in that grade for 1971 but i'm always struck with how price is driven more by demand than grade pop. the half dollar in this set is the obvious gem as far as frost is concerned, but the others are certainly the more rare coins in top grade. also of interest is the high number of half dollars graded PR68DCAM, more than all the others in that grade combined, which tells me that many attempts or crackouts are made "for the money" with the half vs. the other denominations.

any comment along these lines?? the nickel is my search choice, but i always consider the others when looking at sets. it seems a prudent choice over being myopic.

al h.

braddick

keets- You're right! It's so easy sometimes to talk only of the Kennedy half that we loose sight of all the other coins out there.
The Jefferson looks CAM too.

RGL

I agree wholheartedly with keets' astute observation ... gads, what is wrong with me?

DCAMFranklin

Keets- You are SOOOOO right. You make a PR-69 DCAM Lincoln Cent and you are in the big chips! Frankly, I believe it will bring very near the same money as the Kennedy, maybe more, in today's market. Those Lincoln DCAM collectors are STRONG buyers of the rare coin!!

gmarguli

I think that seller uses stock photos.

ClausUrch

I don't think they are stock photos. Here is another of his 71 Proof Sets and the photos are definitely different. Item # 805154115
Item # 805261320

gmarguli

I pulled up two sets that looked like the exact same picture (just named differently thanks to ipix).

I'd email the seller and ask before bidding on his auctions.

DCAMFranklin

Remember, Ol'Pepperdoodles won't allow Member Segoja to return the $1,400+ 1956, Type1 PR-66 Cameo Franklin.

Pepperdoodles

However, you can bet you final dollar that if this '71 Proof Set isn't Deep Cameo, then this seller will receive numerous threatening e-mails demanding a return refund! Hypocrisy?

keets

hey DCAM

your mention of the 1956 T1 franklin brings to mind a question about that coin. does anyone know the history of interest in that issue? when it was identified and how long it's had a healthy premium over it's counterpart? i search for them, but it seems so does everyone else and that's reflected in the price in higher grades.

al h.

Wingsrule

Ah, the elusive 1956 Type 1 Franklin. That coin holds a very special place in my heart. The best upgrade I ever got. Started off as a 68Cam...

DHeath

Keets and Dcam,

I've submitted plenty of the other 71 coinage, particularly the Lincolns, and all of the 71 coins are tough. Below are a couple of my last.

NGC 71 Lincoln
PCGS 71 Lincoln

braddick

Keets, this one looks like it might have a Jefferson with some contrast (the reverse is a crapshoot though), and the downside is minimal!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3359&item=805434736&rd=1

The Lincoln looks good too.

keets

......the best thing about this date is that it's almost a painless endeavor when i take a chance and lose on a set. i mean, for right around $5 a pop!!!!!! i was really unaware of the low pop on the quarter till i checked. i'm just as guilty as most everyone else in that i mainly check the half and nickel and only give the cent a passing glance. time to look a little closaer.

al h.

CarlWohlforth

You might have a winner there Braddick with that Jefferson. There are still only 3 graded in PR 69 DCAM. I have one and it sure cost me a lot a few years ago, there were only 3 graded then too... I suggest all you '71-S proof set buyers take a close look at the Jefferson nickel...

buffalokev

what about the smudge over the mint mark on the nickel is he trying to hide the S or is there no S

DHeath

Pat,

I'll admit it was the quarter that made me BIN this one. The mint sets are fun to search for steps, and occasionally you find the decent half. I stumbled on a PCGS MS66 71-P half in one of these deals. BTW - The obv. of the Kennedy ain't bad either.

71 Proof set and mint set combo

segoja

I'll be curious to see his response if this coin doesn't match the pic.

But guess what, pepperdoodles says that all auctions are final irregardless of how the photo does or deosn't match the coins.

RGL

Don:

Did you e-mail this seller and ask if the set pictured was the set being sold? I came across this guy's auctions recently and asked him. He said the sets were all from the "same group" and that the sets pictured were "representative" of the set you would receive. In other words, it is a stock shot.

DHeath

Yes, it is the set being sold. I've had that experience many times before, and now, I always ask. We'll see.

DoubleDime

I once paid $70 for a 1971 Proof Set but it was from the Eliasberg Collection. This is the only item in my collection with a pedigree.

RGL

Nice pedigree, DD. I assume the coins are spectacular? And, I do not know if you still have it raw -- and if so, I am not suggesting you do -- but does anyone know if you can provide proof of a famous pedigree such as Eliasberg that PCGS would label the slab as such?

DCAMFranklin

Remember the auction, won by Pepperdoodles (Forum idoops), for this 1971 Proof Set?

1971 Proof Set

Well, I looked back through each parties' Feedback to the closing date of the auction, 13th of December, and guess what? Neither party has submitted Feedback for this transaction!

What you wanna' bet Ol'Pepperdoodles, who REFUSES to offer a refund privilege on his auctions, has returned this Proof Set and is forcing the seller to provide him a refund?

gmarguli

When I posted I thought he used stock images because some looked the same, he sent me an email stating that he didn't. So either someone sent him a link to this forum or he is a member.

I'd love to find out if PoodleDroppings is trying to return the set.

DCAMFranklin

Greg- Why not send him a message through Ebay and ask him?

braddick

DCAM- That seems like a stretch, but regardless- thanks for bringing this Thread to the top. I received the 1971-S set I bid on and admittingly and I'm not ashamed to admit- my set has NO reverse CAM or frost at all! Oh well- $6. isn't too bad for the set and the obverses sure look killer- especially the Jefferson.
If that Jefferson had the same killer reverse I'd be very happy right now.

segoja

What ever happened to the original deal????

DHeath

Braddick,

This is the set I bought. Great obverses, and reverses too light to get designation. Oh, well. It was fun anyway, and I'm still hunting.

Blackhawk

I just bought a 71 proof set on Ebay also. Hard to tell by the fuzzy photo, but there's always a chance. I paid $6.50 + shipping.

Link to 71 proof set

mnmcoin

The last 71s cent in PCGS 69DCAM I saw was auctioned at well over 5 times the going rate of the Kennedy in similar grade. Can you say, "REGISTRY MANIA!"

mo <><

keets

Can you say, "REGISTRY MANIA!"

yes i can, but i can also say grade rarity that won't grow much!!

al h.