Thank You Mr. Hall

Wisconsin

I don't know how many people remember my post about the 1875-s Trade Dollar I had body bagged. Well I cracked an AU58 and submitted to PCGS for grading. This was before I realized that anything can happen once you crack a coin. Well it came back in a body bag. I was fairly mad and about to quit dealing with PCGS all together, but with some encouragement from Tradedollarnut who once owned the coin, I decided to contact David Hall about what happened.

It took some time for him to respond to my email, but he got back to me and said I should send the coin to PCGS to his attention and he would look at it and let me know what he thought.

Well today I got a call from Sandy at PCGS saying that Mr. Hall looked at the coin and showed it to some of the graders and agreed it could be slabbed again as AU58.

I did not get any explaination of what may have happened that it got ther body bag, but I am happy that the coin is being re-holdered.

Thanks Mr. Hall for your personal attention and maybe you can add to this thread about what happened.

Jay

coinguy1

Jay,

Glad to hear it. Did you ask him why it didn't get reholdered as a 61, though?

GP

glad to hear you got the problem resolved! The fact that they are still bagging stuff just for the heck of it still bothers me though.

EVillageProwler

What was the original reason that they BB'ed it?

EVP

Wisconsin

Mark,

I didn't ask why it got the grade it got, but was just happy to get it in a holder once again. I learned an awful lot about things from this experience, and am much wiser because of it. It also seems that AU58 coins are more prized than MS61's for some reason also.

Jay

Wisconsin

EVP,

The original reason for body bagging it was cleaning. As I said Tradedollarnut owned the coin at one time, and said no way!! I also could not see how they came up with that idea either.

Jay

Placid

Maybe your original submission got graded at 1 min to closing

DHeath

Jay,

The AU-58 coins are usually much nicer looking than the MS61s. The AU58 may have MS65 characteristics, and a tiny rub. An MS61 can be butt ugly, but uncirculated.

airplanenut

That's my plan if they bag my toned ASE this time around...

Russ

It's nice that David Hall agreed to have the coin put back where it was to begin with, but I think a case like this should be accompanied by a refund of your fees. This one is clearly a screwup on their part.

Russ, NCNE

DesertLizard

Well, that's the real risk of the crackout game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose!

sinin1

Not all AU58's are better than MS61/62's some of them are weakly struck and are no better than AU55's in my opinion.

homerunhall

The coin had been lightly cleaned...on the line of what is acceptable. It had a very nice look and AU58 was the more appropriate grade...David

clevegreg

We are talking about a 75 S Trade dollar here aren't we? Who is the yo-yo that would just bag a coin like that and then have his decision recinded by upper management? I feel this goes to the point that has been overstated, perhaps, that it seems that PCGS loves to play games that result in you, the customer , spending more money to correct their "goofs".

When I was in the military, if I had made a mistake that is the equivalent of a kill/no kill decision, I would have been court martialed at the very least.

PCGS should refund all of your grading fees when they acknowledge they have made an error, and hold their graders accountable.

Greg

Wisconsin

I can't say if PCGS will compensate me for any grading fees or not. I did pay for the body bag, but this last submission was on the house I believe, unless my credit card was charged. Who knows maybe when I get the coin back Mr. Hall will have filled the envelope with free grading vouchers.

Dog97

See, even the experts can't agree on what constitutes cleaning.
It must have had some kind of hairlines that looked like it had been wiped rather than lightly circulated.

marcmoish

Personally I give DH credit for even posting a quick expln here to clarify some, at least thats better than some baby crying comments posted by others here with silly grievances. Nothing is perfect, at least its nice when things look like they are getting better or edging towards that end.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Clevegreg - This is not the military.Noone is killing anyone

A bodybag in coin grading is different than a bodybag in the military

Wisconsin - IMO Dipping is also cleaning.Sometimes the coins get graded but if their dipped too many times...........bodybagged
Did the surfaces of your trade dollar look white?Could it have had some dirt removed? After all it is 125 years old

Coin Grading is not a Science

Stewart

Wisconsin

Stewart,

The coin definately did not looked dipped. It had a nice golden color and appeared quite lusterous. I can maybe think it was wiped at some point in its life. I will try to post a good picture when I get the coin back.

Jay

coinguy1

As has been mentioned in this and other threads, the major grading companies do knowingly holder some cleaned coins.

In doing so, they typically take the cleaning into account and grade such coins lower than they would, were they not cleaned. But, it is often a very tough call, in deciding whether a cleaned coin should simply be graded lower or whether it is too cleaned and should receive a no grade.

It sounds as if Jay's coin might have some mint state characteristics but that it has also been lightly cleaned. And, the decision as to whether to no-grade it or not was a subjective and difficult one - hence the inconsistent results in this case.

One thing to keep in mind is if PCGS and NGC start grading and holdering a lot of fairly heavily cleaned coins, buyers will be unhappy. On the other hand, if all cleaned coins are no-graded, submitters and sellers will be upset.

There is a fine/ difficult line in being realistically accurate and fair to all sides.

EVillageProwler

Jay,

I was the underbidder of this coin. I thought it was a nice coin. Knowing its recent history, I think I still want it.

EVP

Wisconsin

Mark, I think your explanation of what happens is probably correct. I will show you the coin some day and you can explain it further.


EVP, Glad to hear I am not the only one thinking this is a nice coin. I thought it had a very nice look to it, and for the grade I have not seen nicer. I am happy with XF-AU type coins because the look from mintstate is not to far off and at a lot less money.

I will let you know if it ever gets upgraded in my collection.

Dog97

Maybe coinguy1 can add to this because he used to be a grader but I can hardly see the difference between cleaning & wear sometimes.
I carry a Morgan around in my pocket all the time. It's gone from MS63 to around XF. Pure T circulation wear but it's nice & shiny and covered in fresh hairlines just like somebody wiped it off with a gritty papertowel. 10 to 1 says it would NG.